This may be a dumb question but....

projectfiveo · Jul 11, 2010

I was told I can use a 351 stock crank in a 302 and add power. I know nothing about this so please take it easy on me! lol Anyway, what all needs to be done? What would it cost to get it ready for the crank? And, what else has to be replaced, can I keep stock pistons?

Also if someone doesnt mind I have a few more newb questions, whats the best spring upgrade to buy for gt40p heads?

EFI vs carb, whats the best setup, Im wanting carb cause its cheaper and Im starting with just a block.

Whats the best cam/roller rocker setup you would suggest with gt40p heads?

And what should i expect to pay to get the heads worked on?

If you cant tell Im on a budget and trying to get in the 11's with junk yard build pretty much and 150 shot....

Shaolin Crane · Jul 11, 2010

projectfiveo said:
I was told I can use a 351 stock crank in a 302 and add power. I know nothing about this so please take it easy on me! lol Anyway, what all needs to be done? What would it cost to get it ready for the crank? And, what else has to be replaced, can I keep stock pistons?

Also if someone doesnt mind I have a few more newb questions, whats the best spring upgrade to buy for gt40p heads?

EFI vs carb, whats the best setup, Im wanting carb cause its cheaper and Im starting with just a block.

Whats the best cam/roller rocker setup you would suggest with gt40p heads?

And what should i expect to pay to get the heads worked on?

If you cant tell Im on a budget and trying to get in the 11's with junk yard build pretty much and 150 shot....

11's, junkyard build, budget, good luck those 3 things dont normally go together, you're gonna need suspension, sticky tires, and a fair amount of weight savings

68stang351 · Jul 11, 2010

You can't use that crank. The main journals are larger on the 351w crank, so it won't fit.

Cheap, fast, reliable. Pick your two. Cheap and fast won't be reliable. Cheap and reliable won't be fast. Fast and reliable will certainly not be cheap.

metalman85 · Jul 11, 2010

68stang351 said:
You can't use that crank. The main journals are larger on the 351w crank, so it won't fit.

Cheap, fast, reliable. Pick your two. Cheap and fast won't be reliable. Cheap and reliable won't be fast. Fast and reliable will certainly not be cheap.

+eleventybillion

NIKwoaC · Jul 11, 2010

No, whoever told you about the 351 crank thing is on drugs. Even IF you could do it (which you can't, mostly because the main bearings are larger), a 351 crank in a 302 would make for -you guessed it- 351 cubic inches (because the 302 and 351 have the same bore size). 347ci is about the most you can stuff into a stock 302 block, and that is a 3.4 inch stroke crank. A 351 is a 3.5 inch crank. I've heard of going bigger than 3.4, but that would pretty much be for custom full-race builds.

Shaolin Crane · Jul 11, 2010

NikwoaC said:
No, whoever told you about the 351 crank thing is on drugs. Even IF you could do it (which you can't, mostly because the main bearings are larger), a 351 crank in a 302 would make for -you guessed it- 351 cubic inches (because the 302 and 351 have the same bore size). 347ci is about the most you can stuff into a stock 302 block, and that is a 3.4 inch stroke crank. A 351 is a 3.5 inch crank. I've heard of going bigger than 3.4, but that would pretty much be for custom full-race builds.

Well if you bore the **** out of the cylinders you can go 363 on a 8.2 deck, i'd be scared about running it, but you can do it

NIKwoaC · Jul 11, 2010

Shaolin Crane said:
Well if you bore the **** out of the cylinders you can go 363 on a 8.2 deck, i'd be scared about running it, but you can do it

On an aftermarket block you can, that'd be .125 over. You can actually go bigger on some aftermarket blocks, I think around .155 (.125 + .030).

A stock block you really shouldn't go past .030, but some people get away with .060.

Shaolin Crane · Jul 11, 2010

NikwoaC said:
On an aftermarket block you can, that'd be .125 over. You can actually go bigger on some aftermarket blocks, I think around .155 (.125 + .030).

A stock block you really shouldn't go past .030, but some people get away with .060.

like i said, you CAN, doesnt mean you SHOULD

lickem · Jul 18, 2010

NikwoaC said:
No, whoever told you about the 351 crank thing is on drugs. Even IF you could do it (which you can't, mostly because the main bearings are larger), a 351 crank in a 302 would make for -you guessed it- 351 cubic inches (because the 302 and 351 have the same bore size). 347ci is about the most you can stuff into a stock 302 block, and that is a 3.4 inch stroke crank. A 351 is a 3.5 inch crank. I've heard of going bigger than 3.4, but that would pretty much be for custom full-race builds.

a 351 crank in a 302 would make it a 351? really? thats pretty strange considering the drasticly different deck height of the 2 blocks.

total cubic inch displacement has more factors than just bore size... just sayin

btw i just read an article a few days ago of a 363 in a fox that runs 8's and is totally and completely streetable as the guy drove it from florida all the way to commerce ga to race it and then drove it back.

projectfiveo said:
Also if someone doesnt mind I have a few more newb questions, whats the best spring upgrade to buy for gt40p heads?

EFI vs carb, whats the best setup, Im wanting carb cause its cheaper and Im starting with just a block.

Whats the best cam/roller rocker setup you would suggest with gt40p heads?

And what should i expect to pay to get the heads worked on?

If you cant tell Im on a budget and trying to get in the 11's with junk yard build pretty much and 150 shot....

spring upgrades to the heads is 129,000% dependant upon the cam u decide to run

efi all the way imo

cam selection is hard to say with only knowing the heads u wanna run

if u wanna get into the 11's on a "junkyard build" then u better be planning on spending the majority of the money that u do have into suspension. i know a guy that has 350 to the wheel who is in the 11's but he also has a full team z suspension setup.

slow84lx · Jul 18, 2010

lickem said:
btw i just read an article a few days ago of a 363 in a fox that runs 8's and is totally and completely streetable as the guy drove it from florida all the way to commerce ga to race it and then drove it back.

If you did read that article you would have read that he was running an aftermarket block also.

lickem · Jul 18, 2010

u are absoultely correct. however, where did i mention anything whatsoever about it being a stock block?

slow84lx · Jul 18, 2010

lickem said:
u are absoultely correct. however, where did i mention anything whatsoever about it being a stock block?

You did not, however, the OP was asking about putting a 351 crank into a 302 to stroke it the assumption is that he will be using a production block, probably not turbocharged, and not making anywhere near enough power to split the block in half, nevermind more than twice that amount.

lickem · Jul 18, 2010

u mean a stock 302 block wouldnt handle 8 second passes?

the reason i brought that article up is the fact that it can be done, it can be fast and it can be reliable IF using the right parts. I did not bring it up in regards to anything to do with the OP asking about a 351 crank going into a 302.

Shaolin Crane · Jul 18, 2010

lickem said:
a 351 crank in a 302 would make it a 351? really? thats pretty strange considering the drasticly different deck height of the 2 blocks.

total cubic inch displacement has more factors than just bore size... just sayin

btw i just read an article a few days ago of a 363 in a fox that runs 8's and is totally and completely streetable as the guy drove it from florida all the way to commerce ga to race it and then drove it back.

spring upgrades to the heads is 129,000% dependant upon the cam u decide to run

efi all the way imo

cam selection is hard to say with only knowing the heads u wanna run

if u wanna get into the 11's on a "junkyard build" then u better be planning on spending the majority of the money that u do have into suspension. i know a guy that has 350 to the wheel who is in the 11's but he also has a full team z suspension setup.

You're right there is much more to engine displacement than bore size. Thats like saying shortening the rod will increase displacement, the reason the 9.2 deck is drastically different is it allows you to run a longer STROKE. Rods play no role in displacement other than giving optimal rod ratios. 3.00" Stroke=302 3.4" Stroke=347, 3.5"=351, 3.85"=393 etc etc

Also the dude in that article didnt have your run of the mill Dart motor, he is an engineer and completely redesigned how the engine burned fuel, look at his intake. Not something you can just go out and buy.

NIKwoaC · Jul 19, 2010

lickem said:
a 351 crank in a 302 would make it a 351? really? thats pretty strange considering the drasticly different deck height of the 2 blocks.

total cubic inch displacement has more factors than just bore size... just sayin

btw i just read an article a few days ago of a 363 in a fox that runs 8's and is totally and completely streetable as the guy drove it from florida all the way to commerce ga to race it and then drove it back.

OK, smart guy, why don't you educate us on the formula that calculates displacement. I'd like to see where deck height fits into that formula.

Then again, I'm not sure I trust you to make another rational post after that outburst, so I'll do it for you.

D=[pi*(B^2)/4]*S*N

Where:
D=displacement
pi=3.14159
B=bore diameter
S=stroke length
N=number of cylinders

Do you see anything for "deck height" in there?

Example, stock 302:
B=4"
S=3"
N=8

[pi*(4^2)/4]*3*8=301.59 cubic inches

Example, stock 351:
B=4" (LOOK, it’s the same as a 302! Imagine that!)
S=3.5"
N=8

[pi*(4^2)/4]*3.5*8=351.86 cubic inches

Example, aftermarket block 363:
B=4.125" (not possible with a stock block)
S=3.4" (there’s that pesky 3.4” number again)
N=8

[pi*(4.125^2)/4]*3.4*8=363.50 cubic inches

I realize that a 351 block has more deck height than a 302, but this is to account for the longer stroke. It allows the use of a longer rod and taller piston, to reduce rod angularity and ultimately increase engine life by reducing piston side loading. The taller piston also allows more room for the rings above the piston pin. Rod angularity and piston side loading is the main reason you don’t commonly see strokes longer than 3.4” in 302 blocks (though it is done in some race applications). Deck height has NOTHING to do with engine displacement. SO like I said, a 3.5 inch stroke in a 302 block would make it a 351.

Shaolin Crane · Jul 19, 2010

NikwoaC said:
OK, smart guy, why don't you educate us on the formula that calculates displacement. I'd like to see where deck height fits into that formula.

Then again, I'm not sure I trust you to make another rational post after that outburst, so I'll do it for you.

D=[pi*(B^2)/4]*S*N

Where:
D=displacement
pi=3.14159
B=bore diameter
S=stroke length
N=number of cylinders

Do you see anything for "deck height" in there?

Example, stock 302:
B=4"
S=3"
N=8

[pi*(4^2)/4]*3*8=301.59 cubic inches

Example, stock 351:
B=4" (LOOK, it’s the same as a 302! Imagine that!)
S=3.5"
N=8

[pi*(4^2)/4]*3.5*8=351.86 cubic inches

Example, aftermarket block 363:
B=4.125" (not possible with a stock block)
S=3.4" (there’s that pesky 3.4” number again)
N=8

[pi*(4.125^2)/4]*3.4*8=363.50 cubic inches

I realize that a 351 block has more deck height than a 302, but this is to account for the longer stroke. It allows the use of a longer rod and taller piston, to reduce rod angularity and ultimately increase engine life by reducing piston side loading. The taller piston also allows more room for the rings above the piston pin. Rod angularity and piston side loading is the main reason you don’t commonly see strokes longer than 3.4” in 302 blocks (though it is done in some race applications). Deck height has NOTHING to do with engine displacement. SO like I said, a 3.5 inch stroke in a 302 block would make it a 351.

Damn dude, i took care of it lol, you didnt have to go all nerdy on me......again

NIKwoaC · Jul 19, 2010

Shaolin Crane said:
Damn dude, i took care of it lol, you didnt have to go all nerdy on me......again

Haha, yea, I know. I just hate when people ignorantly challenge completely sound technical statements on here... Especially when I'm the one making those statements. It leads to confusion, especially for people who come to this site for information.

Also, I hadn't finished my coffee when I posted that, so I was still irritable.

Shaolin Crane · Jul 19, 2010

NikwoaC said:
Haha, yea, I know. I just hate when people ignorantly challenge completely sound technical statements on here... Especially when I'm the one making those statements. It leads to confusion, especially for people who come to this site for information.

Also, I hadn't finished my coffee when I posted that, so I was still irritable.

Well Cody is a good dude, just sometimes comes off a bit brash

Mustang5L5 · Jul 19, 2010

Interesting

66sprint6 · Jul 20, 2010

If your smart with what little money you have and put it to the right mods, I dont see why you couldnt dip into the 11s with a junkyard/budget combo and a 150 shot! Sticky tires, some decent rear control arms, 4 banger front springs and no sway bar will help ALOT!!! Get it to hook up and drive the hell out of it and you'll be close if not all over it! Just get out there and do it.
Matt

This may be a dumb question but....

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