Thoughts on electronic water pump over regular performance pump?

2Tone5.0 · Nov 24, 2007

Im thinking of getting the electronic water pump to put less pressure on my motor and shorten the belt. Any thoughts? I was also trying to find a good place to get the electronic water pump but i couldent find it at places like brothersperformance.com

Any suggestions?

Roland69 · Nov 24, 2007

they are great for race cars...do a few passes and when you are waiting you can shut the car off and leave the pump running and cool the engine quickly...and even better with a e-fan

2Tone5.0 · Nov 24, 2007

Roland69 said:
they are great for race cars...do a few passes and when you are waiting you can shut the car off and leave the pump running and cool the engine quickly...and even better with a e-fan

I have the E-fan. I was also wondering if i get the electronic w.pump along with my e-fan am i going to have to upgrade the altenator?

And where can i find a good e.pump?

Daggar · Nov 24, 2007

If you're running and electric fan then you should have upgraded you alternator and wiring already!

I'm guessing that since you didn't that you are also not running a fan controller.

Both of those neglected items can spell "under hood fire". I am glad however, that this has not happened to you yet.

As to your original question:

Hell yeah... I'd have one already except for the $400+ price tag. You need to be mindful of eliminating that pulley though. If you're not paying attention, you can turn an accessory or two in their backwards direction.

When I finally break down and get mine, it will be the one with the built in idler pulley so that I don't have to do any monkey business with the belt or pullies. I have no intention whatsoever of running a custom pulley and bracket system.

Roland69 · Nov 24, 2007

that would be a nice setup.

Any yes I would do a 3G upgrade and do some upgrading on the wires aswell.

Mustang5L5 · Nov 24, 2007

Great setup for a weekend or race car....but i would not want to run one on a DD.

They do not have the same lifespan as a mechanical pump

2Tone5.0 · Nov 24, 2007

ohh man in regards to Daggars comment. My stock alt died and i bought a new replacement one. The wiring was upgraded but same stock alt. I remember asking this question at a local speed center and i was told I would be "fine" with the new alt and e-fan. Wow who would have known. But tell me how that would eventually lead to fire?

Mustang5L5 · Nov 24, 2007

Wire that is undersized will heat up when too many amps pass through it. The heat causes insulation to heat up, and will eventually burn and cause a fire.

Stock alt wiring is 10G. This is fine for the stock alt, but when you go 130A, you should just run a 4G power wire.

barnold · Nov 24, 2007

I'm running the Moroso Water Pump Drive (External 12v motor spins the Water pump), one of them on a BBC in an S10 for 5+ years. The S10 is a daily driver and gets driven over 100 miles to a car show every month.

Over the last 5-7 years I have had 2 of these $30 motors go out and probably 4 of the $8.00 belts, but all of this on my drag car. The S10 still have the original everything I ordered from Jegs 5 years ago!

2Tone5.0 · Nov 24, 2007

alright so whats the best make i should get for the e.pump cuz it sounds like its best for a less of a dd. which is what my car will be. weekend driver TOPS!

Daggar · Nov 24, 2007

The one that I pictured above is a Mazier pump. They make them with or without the integral idler pulley. I'd also be looking into a fan/pump controller of some sort. Something like the DCC controller.

When fans/pumps initially kick on, they create a pretty good amperage surge. A pump like this can pull roughly 12 amps once it's on but can pull TWICE that when it kicks on. The same applies to E-fans. Figure the draw to be about twice the rating of the fan when it first kicks on. A controller will slowly ramp the power up to these kinds of devices so that there is no spike in the electrical system. Another nice feature of these things is that they can run your e-fan and water pump for a predetermined amount of time after the motor is shut down.

Definitely a nice feature considering that heat soak is at its worst right after the motor is shut down.

vristang · Nov 25, 2007

Meziere and CSR seem to be the most commonly used...

I've never heard a direct complaint from a user of one of these pumps with regard to 'lifespan'

I'll be using a Meziere WP311 on my 408w rebuild, but have not used one before.
My 408w will be a nearly daily driver.

A DCC controller is a good way to go for running the fan and pump.

Just my take on it...
good luck,
jason

Rick 91GT · Nov 25, 2007

If you need the water pump pulley so you can route your belt correctly the Meziere Dagger has above is the only one out there. If you do not neet that pulley to properly drive your accessories I recommend the Aerospace Components, it it a little cheaper,has less amp draw then the CSR, flows more and also includes the hose fitting which the CSR does not. They are fully rebuildable with stainless steel shafts, good bearings, seals etc

You do not run a thermo with a electric pump, you run a washer with a hole in it, Moroso sells them for $5 for a kit.

Jegs sells them for $305 SPF12
View attachment 345989
Aerospace Components billet water pump contains an efficient 4-amp electric motor that flows over 37 gallons per minute. Designed for strength and reliability, shaft and hardware is stainless steel. These water pumps are fully CNC-machined from 6061-T6 billet aluminum with stainless steel impeller shaft and hardware. Includes 1-1/4'' inlet hose fitting. Ford water pumps include back plate.

5spd GT · Nov 25, 2007

The lifespan issue is not a problem typically because those that get the electric water pump do not drive it near as much as a vehicle that gets daily driver duties, sometimes multiple times a day. I do not see it lasting as long as a belt-driven mechanical water pump.

For a weekend or track car, go for it. For a daily driver, I would advise against it. It is just one more thing that the alternator and battery need to run. An upgrade NEEDS to be done.

The Aerospace and Mezeire pieces look pretty nice, along with the Aerospace having a rebuild kit for it.

vristang · Nov 25, 2007

Why is there always a concern about e- pumps having a short life?

Can anyone show me an example of first hand experience with an e- pump failing prematurely?

Then again... I've had a mechanical pump fail early...

I don't want to start an argument of this thread,
But every time this subject comes up, the majority of the 'negative posts' are regarding lifespan.
I've never heard direct feedback from someone who had a short lifespan from an e- pump...

Again, I did find a couple of guys (mostly on the corral) who claimed to run the Meziere pumps on the street, several times a week if not daily.
After several years, the pump was still running strong

I'm not trying to start any battles.
I made my decision to run the Meziere, due to efficiency reasons...

good luck guys,
jason

5spd GT · Nov 25, 2007

I am not going to argue either.

I do however believe that keeping as many amp drawing devices off a 15-20 year old car is not a bad idea.

Of course mechanical water pumps will go bad after a while. They have seals, just like the electric water pumps do. There is less options to fail, with the lack of electronic control.

I did find a couple articles on putting on and comparing a belt-driven pump to an electric water pump that seem to be pretty objective.

However, I prefer to keep the EWP to a weekend driver and/or track car. I see it being much more practical, while the mechanical water pumps have been proven to go over 100,000 miles on 100's of vehicles. I just have not seen long term testing with any decent amount of mileage, for reasons stated above.

One can install an EWP, but I would stick with a proven cleaner belt-driven pump, over a few horsepower.

An electric water pump COST 10 TIMES more($400 compared to $40). Just as well, you will also need to factor in an electric fan, because the stock fan clutch setup will not mount to electric water pumps.

Anyways, here are the basic links:

http://www.superchevy.com/technical...ccessories_electronics/0408sc_pump/index.html

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/08/electricwaterpump/

vristang · Nov 25, 2007

Good links....

e- pumps seem to provide flow rates in gpm...
mechanical pumps don't...???

My meziere will do 55gpm at peak (based on temp sensor input through the DCC controller I'll be using...)

What will a mechanical pump produce based on rpm?

Still, what I like about an e- pump is that it will provide peak flow when the coolant temp dictates it is needed...
Flow will not be dictated by engine rpm...

From the second link from 5spd GT

There are several advantages to the EWP. First of all the EWP moves water at nearly 1300 gallons per hour at full 12V. This means at idle it is moving the maximum amount of coolant to keep the engine from overheating. In contrast, stock waterpumps move only 300-600 gallons per hour at idle, which is why you see the temp. gauge go up when sitting at a red-light on a hot day. Furthermore, the EWP can continue to run when the engine is off. In racing applications this helps to cool the car quicker between rounds.

5spd GT · Nov 26, 2007

The Chevrolet article stated that "most" mechanical pumps are in the 100 gpm range, capable. Stewart makes a 160 gpm pump. I used to have some numbers from a high-volume Edelbrock piece, but I cannot find it.

Disadvantages of an EWP that I can think of:

- An extra 7.5-10 amp draw.
- Need to have an electric fan.
- 7-10 times the price of a replacement mechanical.
- Potential belt routing issues.
- No long term testing (this is my opinion).

If you get a good electric fan, the water pump will not have a problem. So solve the airflow problem across the radiator first.

Do not get me wrong. I think it would be nice, but I do not see it being needed on a daily driven or active street car. Those that typically promote it are of the "track persuasion."

They are very nice pieces though

90bluegt · Nov 26, 2007

I have the Meziere water pump and it works great. I have had issues with mech water pumps and so far haven't had an issue with the ewater pump. I have had it now for about 3 years with no issues.
One thing I like about it is that it's a constant pump where with the mwater pump at idle after running it hard in 100 degree heat it would take a while to cool, with the electric pump sitting at idle for about 2 min the car's temp would drop to 160 like nothing. Plus I got to keep my normal belt routing, I'm actually running a short belt, but that's ok.

5spd GT · Nov 26, 2007

90bluegt - How many honest miles do you have with it? I am trying to get some information.

Thoughts on electronic water pump over regular performance pump?

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