thumper/tmoss bandwagon come on in

iluvcars · Feb 1, 2004

whats up guys. well it looks like im 100% sure now that im going with thumper ported e7's and tmoss ported lower. it wasn't my decision to go with these parts but im just happy my dad let me get the stang and is letting me modify it in the first place. the deal is if i wanna modify it i gotta keep it as stock as possible for reliability issues. i think it will be a very fun project though and i know i wont be disappointed at all with the new combo. also i think it's cool this car will be more of a sleeper then anything. my ultimate goal is keeping the car the same way it looks now and be able to bust off consistent low low 13's and then high 12s with practice and traction.

the reason i started this thread is i got a few more questions to ask mike and tom, and i feel some of the questions may be of intrest to other ppl as well. also id like to help advertise/promote these 2 guys who have worked really hard to help people on a budget modify their 5.0 mustang.

now for the questions my dad and i have before we order these parts:

1. after doing a crap load of research here on corral and stangnet ive came to a conclusion that the comp cams XE270H-R w/ the 112 lsa (.512/.512 and 218/224) would be one of the best OTS cams to run with this combo. my question is, is this true? i've read that comp cams have faster ramp rates and more aggressive lobes than other OTS cams. i took that into consideration when picking out this cam also.

2. if i go with that cam what brand 1.6 rockers do i get? ive herd good and bad things from every single rocker brand out there. im so confused on which ones to get, but im opting towards ford.

3. will the tmoss intake stop making power before the cam, and will this create an unbalanced combo? would it be noticeably better to do an explorer/cobra intake?

thats all for now, im sure more questions will pop up later.

willys1 · Feb 1, 2004

Thumper sells a package with the heads.Its got a cam a double roller timing chain.Thumper (Mike) himself can answer your RR questions.Hes honest,and not just out to sell his product!!

iluvcars · Feb 1, 2004

im aware of all of that. not trying to be sarcastic. i think the b cam has too much duration on the intake side, plus its old technology. more is not always better from what i've been taught.

90mustangGT · Feb 1, 2004

The reason the alphebet cams work well with Thumper heads is because Mike does the most work on the exaust side. The intake side is ported quite a bit, but the exaust is a lot larger. So what happens is that due to the intake ports being of a smaller port size, you maintain the velosity even with a larger cam, and the exaust side doesn't need the extra help. So a single pattern cam works better with Thumper heads than with other combos.

I have the B cam, on 1.7's advanced 2 degrees. I have plenty of bottom end, I can still do 2nd gear starts, but not as well as the stocker, but not that much worse. The idle is wicked, it lopes hard, with poly mounts the whole car shakes at idle. Right a 4K rpm, it really kicks in hard to 6000rpm. And since when you shift at 5800-6000rpm next gear is right above 4000rpm so it works out great. To be honest, for a daily driver, I would rather go with the cam you suggested. The B does surge some and isn't good when cold, but that could have to do with other factors. Have you considered the TFS Stage 1? Kind of a nice grind, 221/225 @ .500/.512 112LSA for $135 at Summit and has good reviews.

Don't worry about the "old technology" comments. Maby it isn't the best, but it doesn't mean it's junk. There were Fuel Injected DOHC engines in the 1910's, so everything is "old".

willys1 · Feb 1, 2004

iluvcars said:
im aware of all of that. not trying to be sarcastic. i think the b cam has too much duration on the intake side, plus its old technology. more is not always better from what i've been taught.

I cant argue with you about cams bro.Sounds like your making good choices!Good luck with you "Rod"

iluvcars · Feb 1, 2004

i researched back and listened to what Michael Yount said on corral.net about cams with thumper/gt40 heads. thats where i was getting at with dissing the B cam. ive done alot of searches on this forum and corral researching the right cam to put in. what i would like to do is try an convince my dad to let me go custom. but he thinks its not worth it with such a mild combo. anyways, i rode in a thumper/b cam/cobra combo with the b cam advanced 4 deg. and i gotta say i was impressed but not below 3800 RPM, the thing pulled all the way up to 6000. i also thought the b cam acted up a little in traffic in the ride i got from justin (MYGT84RE).

billheis · Feb 1, 2004

That cam sounds good or like was mentioned the TFS 1. Thumper port matched my intake ports and did a 5 angle valve job (I had already ported the exhaust) and run the B cam 4 advanced. Ive got 2600 converter and 373 and mine makes power from 3000 on but does surge slightly. I would tell Mike what your trying to do with car and he wont steer you wrong as far as cam selection.
Bill

Xtreme Limits · Feb 2, 2004

iluvcars , i PM'ed you about my heads let me know.

iluvcars · Feb 2, 2004

i wanna get some more people in on this. speak your mind guys, post up on cam selection with thumper heads. my goals are to go as far as i can into the 12s without having to notch any pistons or add any more gear. i might add nitrous or a blower later down the road but thats it. i will only drive the car in the summer, but i will use it as my daily diver when i do drive it in the summer. i will go to the track atleast once a month, and use it for some occasional street light fun. in reality id like a cam that would allow me to reach my goal of hitting consistent high 12s yet still remain reliable and daily driveable. and when i say daily driveable i dont mean you cant have a cam with some surge or slight problems in traffic. i just dont wanna have a cam that is impossible to drive in traffic. i hope this clarifys things a little.

Rick 91GT · Feb 2, 2004

What's your budget?

mike keirstead · Feb 2, 2004

iluvcars said:
i wanna get some more people in on this. speak your mind guys, post up on cam selection with thumper heads. my goals are to go as far as i can into the 12s without having to notch any pistons or add any more gear. i might add nitrous or a blower later down the road but thats it. i will only drive the car in the summer, but i will use it as my daily diver when i do drive it in the summer. i will go to the track atleast once a month, and use it for some occasional street light fun. in reality id like a cam that would allow me to reach my goal of hitting consistent high 12s yet still remain reliable and daily driveable. and when i say daily driveable i dont mean you cant have a cam with some surge or slight problems in traffic. i just dont wanna have a cam that is impossible to drive in traffic. i hope this clarifys things a little.

If you have excellent traction and some suspension mods you shoul be able to hit the 12s with just bolt-ons. I know alot of guys that do it. I have done it. I ran 12.90-13.0 with the stock cam and heads. Just a gt-40 intake and the rest of the usual stuff. Slicks, gears, shifter, 3100 lbs ( at the time), electric fan, exhaust, and VERY AGRESSIVE DRIVING.

Not saying that every car can do it. Your weight has to be down and your traction must be superb.

A cam, intake, Thumper heads, will take you deep into the 12s with traction and agressive driving. The Thumpers really perform well and Mike (THUMPER) is a top notch fella.

I think the Thumper/ Tmoss combo is a good one for a project that is on a budget. There are a few good cam choices. TFS stage 1, XE 270, Crane 2031, Lunati 51014, and a few Crower cams that would be a good match. I personally would consider ALL of these cams before the Bcam. I have had the Bcam ( installed straight up ) and it was a good performer. I ran Mid 12s with it with stock heads. But there was more in the combo with a better cam choice.

MIKE

tmoss · Feb 2, 2004

I have not one of my customers report results with the XE270 cam, so I can't report direct power band info. Rio5.0 put a Steeda #19 cam in his 95 GT and dynoed 255RWHP and 311RWTQ with peak HP at 5,200-5,300 rpm - the car pulls fine past that point to 6,000 but that was his peak. 5.0Droptop changed out my ported lower for a stock Cobra on his Thumper NS264 cammed car and reported no big difference in the way the car ran. He has not been back to the track for comparison data as he did the swap this winter. The Cobra intake would shift the power band up some from my ported stock lower.

I get less feedback hard data than I like considering how many of these intakes I have out there, but I guess that is not too big a surprise since many are on a budget like yourself - not enough money for before & after dynos or cam swaps possibly.

The XE270 specs out very close in lsa and duration and valve events to the Crower 15511 which is a known power maker with SD or MAF. It's lift is short of the XE270 cam with 1.6 rockers but very close with 1.7s. I think the XE cam will work well. Scorpion rockers also seem to have a good reputation.

iluvcars · Feb 2, 2004

good now i got some of the people i want in on this thread! i wanna hear from mike himself too

Rick91GT: my budget for a cam is prolly no more then a comp cam, i wanna get a buddy rawls cam but my dad thinks its too much money to spend on a cam for just a minor buildup. and i somewhat agree, but i still think custom will always be better.

mike kierstead: ur totally right, a guy by the name "cleanLX" has gone 12.9's at 104 in his stocker notch with just gears, exhaust, pulleys, mam, and slicks+skinnies. I am a very aggressive driver at the track. i've surprised my dad many times with good ET's. i just dont wanna expect too much outa the combo. i mean sure down the road if i ever add a drag suspension and take out alot more weight i could go more into the 12s, but for right now all i wanna do is be able to go 12.9 @ 105-106 with say like a mid 1.8 60ft. i dont think thats asking too much, is it?

tmoss: i am going to be very helpful with feedback to u and mike. trust me i will be posting alot of info on this buildup with track times and dyno numbers. my dad knows its important to tune the car after modifying it this much, especially to get some more hp out of it with good a/f ratio. we're prolly going to go down to Rick Anderson in Clinton, IL to have the car tuned. unless theres somewhere else locally thats cheaper and just as repituable(sp). anyways, im not 100% sure yet on the cam, i just herd Michael Yount say the comp cams XE270H-R cam is one of the more aggressive OTS cams to put in a thumper/gt40 head car. If there is a more aggressive OTS cam then please enlighten me!!! lol.

ok im done for now. sorry for writing so much, but i wanna talk about this subject some.

tmoss · Feb 2, 2004

I edited my last response as I forgot to mention that 5.0Droptop changed his intake to a Cobra from mine.

Here is a spreadsheet of some of the SD compatible cams that also work well with mild buildups and the cam you mention is in there. This gives you some idea about duration, lca, and valve events for these cams. Hope it's helpful.

I don't klnow why, but the file I attacehd to this response does not show up in the thread. I edited this and found it still attached and whn I clicked on it, it appeared. I saw one other guy today say the same thing happened to him. Stangnet CONTINUES to have serious issues with this "upgrade". Monitors - are you listening?

iluvcars · Feb 2, 2004

tom if u wanna send it to me u can always email me at luke.hanson@wmich.edu

RIO5.0 · Feb 2, 2004

Ah yes...Maxxing the T/T combo....well my assault on the dyno will be soon...i can attest to Toms work....I ran his stock, then the Explorer for a month, no dyno data, guy closed shop for the winter...
The latest and greatest in my quest is...swapping to a 93 Cobra upper/Fox 65 TB set-up, putting the 24s in and i just bought a MSD Pro-Billet to throw that in there....dyno opens April and i'll be ready....i'm anxious to see what the 24s/Cobra are worth???

iluvcars · Feb 2, 2004

now thats 2 people that have gone from tmoss to cobra intake. hmm...

RIO5.0 · Feb 2, 2004

My GT40 Lower is a Tmoss ported one though....

I went about running dyno numbers for the T/T info...my last run was kinda like, ok, lets do Toms Explorer and see what it gives us, as we thought the stock lower may have been a bottleneck, as far as the Thumpers were concerned, also my MPH seemed low...although i was over peak when shifting....as mentioned, dyno closed once I swapped in the Exp...
I choose to swap to the Cobra, as I have always liked the looks of the 93 upper....since i swapped to a Fox TB set-up, I could finally run the upper I wanted....I tend to stick with the FMS stuff...

Its kinda like automatic progression... Once you start, you always want more...In a lighter Fox with the times in my sig, who knows I may have cracked the 12s??? I only had 3 runs that day, like 2 hrs apart... Don't have alot of seat time thus far....

iluvcars · Feb 2, 2004

we have the same mph, 99. if u can launch really good on some slicks that mph is good for 13.4's

rio did u notice a difference in hp goin from a regular tmoss to the explorer w/ ported lower?

RIO5.0 · Feb 2, 2004

Ya, there was a dif.....most people don't like the sotp meter, but thats all i had...i noticed a big dif in low end, which my cam lost some when added, that cam back around, the midrange was way strong to...blows the tires away bigtime in 2nd...myself i felt it lost some topend pull, didn't seem to pull as hard to redline compared to the stock ported lower??, once again, thats sotp data... I'll have some numbers soon, just for what there worth...

I'm not really a 1320 kinda guy...i do it, adding parts, for the fun...i have more fun just blowing the tires away than anything else....Im gonna head to some TT sessions again this year...if nothing more than to see if a T/T combo will crack 12s in a SN95....someone has to put it to bed....

thumper/tmoss bandwagon come on in

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