Timing at 32*
- Thread starter 88mclaren209
- Start date
Fuel injected ? Did you pull the spout out of the dist before trying to set the base timing
Its fuel injected. Pulled the spout out and timed it to base timing but no start. It only starts at 32*
Have you had the distributor out ? Something seems off. I’d try re timing it and reinstalling the dist and starting fresh
Pull the #1 plug, stick your finger over the hole and crank the engine over till you feel air pushing out. Stick a pencil or screwdriver in the hole and turn the engine by hand till the piston stops rising, you may have to turn the engine back if you go past tdc, note where the marks are on the balancer, should be at 0*. Rotor should be lined up with #1 on distributor cap. That will tell you if your balancer has spun (not on 0*) or the distributor is in the wrong place (rotor not pointing at #1 plug wire)
This considering you have not replaced timing chain/cam.
This considering you have not replaced timing chain/cam.
Yes we did that 0* match up with piston on tdc. And i did put in a e303 and new timing chain kit.
Everything is all lined up ? Not that cam timing events have a correlation to ignition timing events . Still sounds to me and no offense you guys are not getting this thing set right initially . I’ve done it 100 times and had it fight me a few times .
When you say you put in a e 303 . Was it just the cam ? You have heads on the car ? Or stock heads ? Did you put better valve springs in ? Are the rockers adjusted correctly ?
At 32 degrees the car doesn’t bog anymore and runs normal?
Try a different timing light . I had a self powered flaming river drive us nuts one time reading like 220 degrees when we had it set for 32 and I swapped lights and bingo figured it out
Ill
Ill post pictures tomorrow when theres day light. But yes im aiming towards my timing chain. The block is a fresh rebuild and a e303cam was installed.
You didn’t answer what i asked , are heads stock or aftermarket ? Do they have the right valve springs ?
IS the cam degreed right or atleast dot to do . This will not cause ignition issues . Cam degree is relation to when the timing events of the valves opening and closing begin in the motor . Not when the ignition timing events occur .
Ok , you sure the cam is in right and you godforbid didn’t kiss some valves ? Where did you degree it to ? Or just dot to dot ? How about rocker adjustment . Too tight could hang valves and bend them too.
No one is perfect and mistakes do happen . Leak the motor down and see if you have an issue there . Just to rule it out .
No one is perfect and mistakes do happen . Leak the motor down and see if you have an issue there . Just to rule it out .
The harmonic balancer has slipped/spun...
Harmonic balancer check to see if it has spun or moved the timing marks
The balancer is a 2 piece unit. The outer hub has the timing marks on it. The inner hub is bonded to the outer hub by a rubber ring. Sometimes the rubber ring bonding the two hubs together goes bad and the outer ring with timing marks move. Then the engine is out of balance and the timing marks are way off when this happens
Before you waste time and money replacing a balancer, make sure that it needs replacing....
Spend 30 minutes and $7.50 to save you $60. You can't get a better deal than that anywhere...
Prep step:
Joe R’s note: Timing tape (strip of adhesive backed paper with timing marks printed on it) is available from Summit Racing https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-163594/overview/ use it instead of a degree wheel. The cost is about $5 plus shipping
[
Clean the balancer rim up real good with acetone or paint thinner. Try not to get the acetone or paint thinner on anything but the balancer rim; it could damage the rubber mounting ring. Some cotton balls or a wadded up ball of paper towel may be the best application tools. Let whatever solvent you used dry completely and then apply the timing tape.
Line the TDC mark up on the tape with the TDC make on the balancer; make sure it is stuck down good.
TDC location process courtesy of Michael Yount
If you're trying to find ACTUAL tdc for cam installation/degreeing, follow the steps below:
Positive stop – obtain an old spark plug for the Ford engine – most of us have at least one laying around. Put it in your vice, and with a tool of destruction you deem appropriate – cut off the ground tip and bust up the ceramic around the center electrode. Keep pounding to get the ceramic and center electrode removed so you’ve got a good ¾” or so of hollow space inside what used to be the ‘business’ end of the spark plug. If you happen to break the ceramic on the other end of the spark plug, don’t worry about it. Once you’ve got a nice hollow space in the tip of the plug, take a 5/16” tap, and cut threads inside that end of the plug. I found that diameter to go right in without any drilling required. Once you’ve cut threads, screw in a 5/16" bolt about 1.5” to 2” long. Then take your hack saw and cut the head off the bolt. Wouldn’t hurt to take your file/grinder and dress up the freshly cut surface so no sharp edges or shrapnel enter the combustion chamber. Also clean up the threads on the plug so that it easily screws into and out of the plug hole.
Determining TDC – remove the passenger side valve cover. Rotate the engine (socket on crank bolt) until the #1 piston is down the cylinder on the intake stroke. Unscrew the spark plug in that cylinder, and replace it with the positive stop you just made. Only screw the positive stop in hand tight. Install your cam degree wheel and pointer (no easy task in some cases as harmonic balancer and other accessories will have to be removed). You may want to remove all spark plugs at this point because it will make it easier to smoothly turn the engine over in small increments. GENTLY rotate the engine clockwise until the piston comes to rest against the stop. Note the degree wheel reading. GENTLY rotate the engine in the opposite direction until the piston comes to rest against the stop. Note the degree wheel reading. TDC is exactly half way between these readings. Calculate where that position is on the degree wheel, remove the piston stop from the cylinder, and rotate the engine to TDC as you calculated it. You are now at true TDC.
After you have done that, make sure the TDC mark on the balancer now lines up with the timing pointer. If it doesn't line up then replace the balancer.
If it does line up, you need to look elsewhere for your problem.
Harmonic balancer check to see if it has spun or moved the timing marks
The balancer is a 2 piece unit. The outer hub has the timing marks on it. The inner hub is bonded to the outer hub by a rubber ring. Sometimes the rubber ring bonding the two hubs together goes bad and the outer ring with timing marks move. Then the engine is out of balance and the timing marks are way off when this happens
Before you waste time and money replacing a balancer, make sure that it needs replacing....
Spend 30 minutes and $7.50 to save you $60. You can't get a better deal than that anywhere...
Prep step:
Joe R’s note: Timing tape (strip of adhesive backed paper with timing marks printed on it) is available from Summit Racing https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-163594/overview/ use it instead of a degree wheel. The cost is about $5 plus shipping
[
Clean the balancer rim up real good with acetone or paint thinner. Try not to get the acetone or paint thinner on anything but the balancer rim; it could damage the rubber mounting ring. Some cotton balls or a wadded up ball of paper towel may be the best application tools. Let whatever solvent you used dry completely and then apply the timing tape.
Line the TDC mark up on the tape with the TDC make on the balancer; make sure it is stuck down good.
TDC location process courtesy of Michael Yount
If you're trying to find ACTUAL tdc for cam installation/degreeing, follow the steps below:
Positive stop – obtain an old spark plug for the Ford engine – most of us have at least one laying around. Put it in your vice, and with a tool of destruction you deem appropriate – cut off the ground tip and bust up the ceramic around the center electrode. Keep pounding to get the ceramic and center electrode removed so you’ve got a good ¾” or so of hollow space inside what used to be the ‘business’ end of the spark plug. If you happen to break the ceramic on the other end of the spark plug, don’t worry about it. Once you’ve got a nice hollow space in the tip of the plug, take a 5/16” tap, and cut threads inside that end of the plug. I found that diameter to go right in without any drilling required. Once you’ve cut threads, screw in a 5/16" bolt about 1.5” to 2” long. Then take your hack saw and cut the head off the bolt. Wouldn’t hurt to take your file/grinder and dress up the freshly cut surface so no sharp edges or shrapnel enter the combustion chamber. Also clean up the threads on the plug so that it easily screws into and out of the plug hole.
Determining TDC – remove the passenger side valve cover. Rotate the engine (socket on crank bolt) until the #1 piston is down the cylinder on the intake stroke. Unscrew the spark plug in that cylinder, and replace it with the positive stop you just made. Only screw the positive stop in hand tight. Install your cam degree wheel and pointer (no easy task in some cases as harmonic balancer and other accessories will have to be removed). You may want to remove all spark plugs at this point because it will make it easier to smoothly turn the engine over in small increments. GENTLY rotate the engine clockwise until the piston comes to rest against the stop. Note the degree wheel reading. GENTLY rotate the engine in the opposite direction until the piston comes to rest against the stop. Note the degree wheel reading. TDC is exactly half way between these readings. Calculate where that position is on the degree wheel, remove the piston stop from the cylinder, and rotate the engine to TDC as you calculated it. You are now at true TDC.
After you have done that, make sure the TDC mark on the balancer now lines up with the timing pointer. If it doesn't line up then replace the balancer.
If it does line up, you need to look elsewhere for your problem.
I seen u put on onother forum about fuel pressure. My fuel pressure slowly went up to 32psi. So im leaning towards that right know. I put stock rockers on they are no roller so they just get a torque down.
The balancer is in good shape hasnt spunThe harmonic balancer has slipped/spun...
Harmonic balancer check to see if it has spun or moved the timing marks
The balancer is a 2 piece unit. The outer hub has the timing marks on it. The inner hub is bonded to the outer hub by a rubber ring. Sometimes the rubber ring bonding the two hubs together goes bad and the outer ring with timing marks move. Then the engine is out of balance and the timing marks are way off when this happens
Before you waste time and money replacing a balancer, make sure that it needs replacing....
Spend 30 minutes and $7.50 to save you $60. You can't get a better deal than that anywhere...
Prep step:
Joe R’s note: Timing tape (strip of adhesive backed paper with timing marks printed on it) is available from Summit Racing https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-163594/overview/ use it instead of a degree wheel. The cost is about $5 plus shipping
[
Clean the balancer rim up real good with acetone or paint thinner. Try not to get the acetone or paint thinner on anything but the balancer rim; it could damage the rubber mounting ring. Some cotton balls or a wadded up ball of paper towel may be the best application tools. Let whatever solvent you used dry completely and then apply the timing tape.
Line the TDC mark up on the tape with the TDC make on the balancer; make sure it is stuck down good.
TDC location process courtesy of Michael Yount
If you're trying to find ACTUAL tdc for cam installation/degreeing, follow the steps below:
Positive stop – obtain an old spark plug for the Ford engine – most of us have at least one laying around. Put it in your vice, and with a tool of destruction you deem appropriate – cut off the ground tip and bust up the ceramic around the center electrode. Keep pounding to get the ceramic and center electrode removed so you’ve got a good ¾” or so of hollow space inside what used to be the ‘business’ end of the spark plug. If you happen to break the ceramic on the other end of the spark plug, don’t worry about it. Once you’ve got a nice hollow space in the tip of the plug, take a 5/16” tap, and cut threads inside that end of the plug. I found that diameter to go right in without any drilling required. Once you’ve cut threads, screw in a 5/16" bolt about 1.5” to 2” long. Then take your hack saw and cut the head off the bolt. Wouldn’t hurt to take your file/grinder and dress up the freshly cut surface so no sharp edges or shrapnel enter the combustion chamber. Also clean up the threads on the plug so that it easily screws into and out of the plug hole.
Determining TDC – remove the passenger side valve cover. Rotate the engine (socket on crank bolt) until the #1 piston is down the cylinder on the intake stroke. Unscrew the spark plug in that cylinder, and replace it with the positive stop you just made. Only screw the positive stop in hand tight. Install your cam degree wheel and pointer (no easy task in some cases as harmonic balancer and other accessories will have to be removed). You may want to remove all spark plugs at this point because it will make it easier to smoothly turn the engine over in small increments. GENTLY rotate the engine clockwise until the piston comes to rest against the stop. Note the degree wheel reading. GENTLY rotate the engine in the opposite direction until the piston comes to rest against the stop. Note the degree wheel reading. TDC is exactly half way between these readings. Calculate where that position is on the degree wheel, remove the piston stop from the cylinder, and rotate the engine to TDC as you calculated it. You are now at true TDC.
After you have done that, make sure the TDC mark on the balancer now lines up with the timing pointer. If it doesn't line up then replace the balancer.
If it does line up, you need to look elsewhere for your problem.
Not the brand, they make a one with a dial on it and can be confusing to use.
Fuel pressure or rocker type/adjustment will not effect timing.
And you are sure the balancer has not spun.
You sure the pointer is the right one?
We are missing something here, it is very difficult to resolve this without putting hands on.
just curious, what computer is in it?
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