Timing Problems

G

guerrini

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Aug 5, 2006

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Missouri

Aug 5, 2006

#1

• Aug 5, 2006

• #1

Help!!

First, I have an 86 5.0. I had it in the shop for periodically not starting. After them playing around with it in MANY areas including the EEC-IV and TPS, they found out it was the fuel pump. After I got it back it didn't have any power. Reset the base timing with the spout connector off at 13. After I reinstalled the connector it jumped up to 30. Is this normal?
I also adjusted the TPS to .97V which was way off with the new one they installed, this did correct the surging problem that was also created. I still don't have any power and it jumps and sputters when I accelerate.
Is it possible that in their witchhunt for the problem they lifted the distributor out and the gears are not currently lined up?
I thought of pulling the codes but excuse my stupidity but where is the connector to hook the reader up to?

Thanks for any help someone can give me.

 

HISSIN50

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#2

• Aug 5, 2006

• #2

You're not one tooth off with the dizzy - you're in time.

I am not conversant with the 86 SD puters, but that seems like a bit of a timing jump from just installing the SPOUT connector. What is the TPS voltage at right now? My only thought is that it's reading way high and the puter is running up the advance (and since you dont have a functional CEL, you're not aware of a high limit code).

On an aero fox, the self test connector is by the wiper motor on the driverside firewall (between the firewall and strut housing). Jrichker has a post with pics and links for code dumping.

Good luck.

 

G

guerrini

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#3

• Aug 5, 2006

• #3

I thought it was quite a jump in timing also. The TPS with the ignition on I currently at .98v (good). I am starting to question the computer, is this a possiblilty

 

HISSIN50

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#4

• Aug 5, 2006

• #4

I still would pull codes first - the sputtering and other drivability issue could be related to the timing thing.

I seriously doubt your puter took a poop on you. Its much more likely an issue of sensory input, vac lines, etc etc.
Good luck.

 

jrichker

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#5

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• #5

Here's the diagnostic connector

and

Dump the codes and see what the computer says is wrong…Codes may be present in the computer even if the Check Engine light isn’t on.

Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great.

See http://www.troublecodes.net/Ford/
OR [[
See http://www.mustangworks.com/articles/electronics/eec-iv_codes.html

IF your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see http://www.actron.com/product_detail.php?pid=16153 for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Walmart.

Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/detailedproductdescription.asp?3829 – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $35.

 

B

bsedwebt70-5.0

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Aug 5, 2006

#6

• Aug 5, 2006

• #6

If you have a mass air conversion on this car please clean the heated wire element with electrical parts cleaner - free fix. If not - clean plugs, check plug wires, clean/check dizzy cap, check fuel pressure (should be 30+ lbs at idle and increase to 38 or so when vacuum line popped off regulator - change fuel filter first before anything else if it is not showing correctly),check/clean all ground connections, etc... Your problem sounds like a simple fix that takes some hunting but no real money hopefully - good luck to you

 

G

guerrini

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#7

• Aug 5, 2006

• #7

I connected a code reader and the engine off results delivered a 67 fault code. The book I have shows possibilities of Neutral Drive Switch, Manual lever position sensor out of range. This does not seem to point to the problem I am having or does it? Can I perform the engine running test with this previous engine off fault code?

Thanks again for all the suggestions!

 

HISSIN50

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#8

• Aug 5, 2006

• #8

Be sure you're in neutral and have the HVAC controls turned off. Jrichker has a code 67-specific post if you wait a little bit.

Good luck.

 

G

guerrini

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Aug 6, 2006

#9

• Aug 6, 2006

• #9

Yes, it is in neutral and the A/C controls are turned off but I am currently low on Freon. Could the low freon level cause this code even if the compressor isn't running?
Thanks

 

G

guerrini

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#10

• Aug 6, 2006

• #10

HOLD ON EVERYONE! I think I found the problem! I took out the distributor to closely inspect it looking for any wear or slop. When I lifted it on it's side a plastic pin fell out of the top. The plastic housing used for the feedback is broken and the sensor is floating back and forth. I believe this is why I can't get this to run good on correct timing. I will post with the results when I get it replaced.

Thanks again to all!

 

HISSIN50

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#11

• Aug 6, 2006

• #11

Um, nice eyes and catch there bud.
A floating PIP is like a halfback cutting hard-right while on ice - it doesnt work too well.

Good luck.

 

G

guerrini

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Aug 5, 2006

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Missouri

Aug 6, 2006

#12

• Aug 6, 2006

• #12

Update:
Installed a remanufactured Distributor and set base timing at 10. Took it for a test run and ran better and more consistant but still lack of power. Moved the base timing up to 14 and it ran about half again better but still not where it should be (can't spin the tires).
(with the spout connector in it advances the timing base + 20, which after some research found out this is right)
How high can I set the timing before I start to get in trouble?

Getting Closer to getting the old girl back!!

 

HISSIN50

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#13

• Aug 6, 2006

• #13

There's no magic number for advance; it is engine dependant for everyone.

If you start to hear detonation, back it off a few degrees. Leave some room for further heat saturation if you're setting it with the motor not real hot, but you do get it real hot while driving around.

Good luck.

 

jrichker

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#14

• Aug 6, 2006

• #14

Code 67 - clutch not depressed (5 speed) or car not in neutral or park (auto) or A/C in On position when codes where dumped. Possible neutral safety switch or wiring problem. This code may prevent you from running the Key On Engine On tests. You can generally ignore this code, since it has no effect on engine performance