Timing Spout HELP Have Searched

xexitenglishx · Apr 30, 2005

Ok i checked my timing today and i forgot the pull the spout. With the conector STILL hooked up it shows 8* timing. Now when i disconect the spout the car dies right away. I tried starting the car without the spout in and the car would turn over but not start. Can someone please enlighten me? Thanks

Daggar · Apr 30, 2005

Sure... advance your timing a bit then try it again.

xexitenglishx · Apr 30, 2005

Ill give it a try i just dont want to break anything

xexitenglishx · Apr 30, 2005

Ok i got the bolt out or loose for the dist..and it WONT turn at all.. I try and i dont want to break it..any advice anyone can give to loosen it at all?

88GTtom · Apr 30, 2005

make sure you drive the car for a bit to get her nice and warm before you attempt to do anything to the timing. when i fire her up she runs like ass. if i check timing it is way down. when she warms up, the timing will go up. Point being, i am not to sure if you warmed her up before you tried to set the timing. also, pull the spout with the car off, start and then set the timing, and then turn the car off and install the spout. once you set the timing with the spout out and then reinstalled it, the timing will go up more. dont worry if you see that, the computer does that. give it a base setting of 12-14 degrees spout out. I have read it many times before to do it this way so thats why i am telling you the same. if she was warmed up and she was reading 8 nice and hot with the spout in, just advance the timing to about 18-20 degrees and then turn the car off and pull the spout and adjust it from that point. hope this helps.

xexitenglishx · Apr 30, 2005

Yea she was good and hot but now i cant move the dist..it wont budge any one know a fix?

Stang8URMPRT · Apr 30, 2005

Turn it harder. The o-ring is probable stuck. You're not going to break anything.

xexitenglishx · Apr 30, 2005

Well i was able to turn it wd-40 and let it sit for 30 mins worked wonders....Problem number 2. When i disconnect the spout it dies. It shows about 12* timing when the spout is plugged in. When i unplug it it immetiatly dies or if the car is off it wont even start. Now i tried further advancing the timing but as i get a to about 15* with the spout in its at the limits of the wire harness of the spout connector...turning it clockwise. I have no idea what to do. How would the timing affect my high end rpms. Whenever i bring it over 4000 i smell burning. Would timing affect this. PLease someone help. Thank you guys

88GTtom · Apr 30, 2005

not to sure if i am right... but you might want to think about pulling the distributor out and putting it back in to have the slack back. you will then have to set top dead center ( by turning the crank by hand) or set it at 14-14 degrees and then realign your rotor to #1. Do a search and try to find threads by people who pull their distributor and dont mark it. try top dead center. its like starting from scratch. good luck

notchback · Apr 30, 2005

88GTtom said:
not to sure if i am right... but you might want to think about pulling the distributor out and putting it back in to have the slack back.

somethings not right...but i think your turning it the wrong way also

you might wanna pull it to make sure it's correctly in there

xexitenglishx · Apr 30, 2005

See the thing is..it was siezed closed..i dont think anythign has been changed for a long while WRT the timing.. It is accually probably all original since everything else on the car was including the Spark plug wires that read 1987 but i changed those haha..anyother suggesttions rather than pulling it..Also which way is to advance timing and which is to retard it? jsut to make surei would like to stay away from that...if my timing was that retarded what would be the effects...would taht computer take full control or what? enlighten me

xexitenglishx · May 1, 2005

On top of i just looked up 2 posts..one saying that clockwise retards and the other saying it advances..whats the deal?
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=520379&highlight=timing
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=507488&highlight=timing

HISSIN50 · May 1, 2005

my hand is telling me that clockwise is advancing (which is what i think you were doing). another variable is a balancer that has spun a bit. while it wont affect the actual timing, it will make you rip your hair out trying to see why it does not read right.

i would want to be sure of the balancer situation before proceeding using the balancer marks as a reference. if you showed 8* SPOUT in, with the SPOUT out, your timing should be insanely retarded. i have run SPOUT-in timing down to 6* on the 94GT and i took it down to 0* for a second to hear what was happening. stuff was compensating but it ran. i am running 6* SPOUT in right now (different computer but mostly parallel engine management parameters).

symptoms of retardation are: your username is Hissin, you....LOL, whoops. the car will seem kind of dead at higher rpms and while cruising at steady rpms, it can chug.

i would usually recommend restabbing the dizzy, but i dont want to introduce another variable. if you do decide to do this (after being sure the dizzy is alright and you are real sure the plug wire being used is plug #1 - your dizzy sounds out of whack, so you want to be sure. some caps dont have a number 1 on them). but you can pull it and retime. Jrichker has a nice write up on doing so. and if you read threads about this, there is no such thing as being one tooth off. you would have to really mess up to not get it to run and in time.

ok, way too much ramblin from Hissin. good luck.

TheUser · May 1, 2005

EDIT: After reading HISSIN's post which he posted while I was typing this, I would suggest looking up the distributer installation thread by Jrichker as most of his stuff is fool proof. Consider the jibberish I wrote a brief overview

xexitenglishx: I agree...I think it's been moved around so much now, you might as well just pull it and reinstall it.

Pull distributer. Now, you'll have to find Top Dead Center by pulling your number one spark plug and putting a piece of paper towel gently in the hole...don't shove it in there, just put it in there gently! Have someone crank the car over SLOWLY and when the paper towel blows out, that's the beginning of the compression stroke. Look on the balancer and get it to around 10-14* BTDC, which is to the RIGHT of the 0* BTDC mark.

Next, place the distributer in the hole and face the rotor to point to the number one spark plug (plug closest to front of car on passenger side). Next, put your distributer hold down in loosely so you can move it around a bit. I like to try to keep the TFI connector pointing at or near the front of the A/C compressor so I have room to play with it if need be. Plug in the TFI connector and remove the SPOUT connector. Put your distributer cap on and make sure the number one plug is on the tip that is over the rotor.

Now, try to start the car. It should start, but might run rough. Get a timing light on it and get it to your desired timing (10-14* SPOUT connector out). Tighten down the distributer hold down bolt and shut the car off. Put the SPOUT connector back in and you should be back in business.

I've done this many times, but it's been a little while since the last time, so I'm going from memory. Hope I didn't forget something.

HISSIN50 · May 1, 2005

James, your write up sounds great to me. one thing we both know that might mess him up is that the exhaust stroke can also 'blow on the paper towel', so make sure the towel is being blown well or it could be the wrong cycle. i use my finger and actually cycle through a couple compression strokes to be sure, but i am kinda slow.

BTW, i had my mind in the gutter and your paragraph that begins, "Pull distributor" had my dirty mind rolling.

xexitenglishx · May 1, 2005

hmm.. well i just might have to do that.. But the car is running OK for now...and i plan on trying to get the parts for my H/C/I this month...I might as well wait for that and just get a new cap and rotor to replace it. But in the higher RPMs it does feel like it has lost power..Well ill get back to you guys on how everything goes the next month or two. Thanks for your help and ill look up the thread by Jrichker

crunchie12268 · May 1, 2005

Just a thought, are you using a advance inductive timing light? I think that is the one with the dial on the back, if so, make sure it is set right... if not then nevermind, just making sure you aren't forgetting the easy stuff.

2002BLGT · May 1, 2005

I will bet you anything when this guy tears this thing down hes got a MILE or slack in the timing chain on things buddys car was doing the same thing ( lossing all power on top end ) , and we did HCI on it few months ago and the chain was so loose you could just about take it off the gears with the gears on the cam and crank LOL ....... make sure you put a new timing set on this thing when you do the HCI and if you get delayed on getting the HCI it would be a good learning lesson to go ahead and tear it down to do the timing set anyway ...get a good repair manual , haynes or chiltons to help you with this ......oh and I would recommend getting a replacement balancer also......

xexitenglishx · May 1, 2005

Hmm well the trick flow kit luckily comes with the timing chain and all so i should be good. Ill let you guys know...Yea im looking for a shop manual but can seem to find one...As for a harmonic balancer..and suggestions on where to get one and what brands are good for a decent price..Im not planing on making a high reving engine...

HISSIN50 · May 1, 2005

a lot of folks like the PP unit from LRS. the street version is about 80 bucks and it should come with a shim included (i would have gotten this one, had they not been backordered). Pioneer also makes (IMHO) a good balancer. street versions are 60-100 buck and available at some parts stores. add 100 bucks or a smidge more to each one to get the SFI versions.

Romacs are very nice but more money. there are other brands, but i am not as familiar with them.

good luck.

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