top 3 gauges

[tunedin302]

To answer the original posters question:
In my experience, the most critical gauge I added was a mechanical oil pressure guage (mounted outside the car). This came after I had my stock eletrical sender go out on me and read "0" oil pressure. I decided that this would be less likely with the mechanical. If you go with autometer, get some braided lines rather than that cheap plastic tubbing they provide with the gauge.

MY - I have been very interested in installing a cooler for the past couple of years. When I investigated it further, I was told by a reputable engine builder that the cooler decreases oil pressure a lot and is therefore not advisable. He said the correct way to get lower oil temp is to increase the amount of oil available to the engine. In other words, get a 7qt pan. This would allow the engines heat to be divided amoung 7qts rather than the factory 5qts. What are your thoughts?

 

[srothfuss]

...as oil temperature increases, viscosity drops, and almost always oil pressure drops with decreasing viscosity. I saw significant increases in oil pressure with reduced temperatures as well...

Exactly why I am putting in an OIL TEMP gauge + a Cooler in over the winter. Next spring, I will be able to report temperature changes with and without the cooler. I want to know the before and after temps!

...wear in the engine, and also shortens the life of gaskets and seals...

Do I even need to reiterate this? Less Heat = Longer component life!

...There are also challenges with oil running too cool - so some sort of t'stat for the oil cooling system is usually a requirement...

The oil cooler I am getting (hopefully sometime next week) waits until the engine oil is up to temperature (230F ?) before sending the oil through the cooler lines. <= Again a temp gauge will be required to verify proper function of my cooler.

...And it's amazing how the oil temp will climb when you work the engine hard...

Last summer, I would take 2 - 4 hour drives in the country. While relaxing in the country, I would OCCASIONALLY spend a few mintues running hard around corners or down the straight aways. My oil PSI seriously suffered from these. Next summer I will switch to a 10w40 instead of the 10w30 I was running and addithe oil cooler. The cooler the oil, the longer it'll last and the more fun I can have.

BTW: My radio / gauge bezel arrived and so did my gauges. Once I have it all installed, I'll post up the pictures of the bezel.

 

[Michael Yount]

If the oil cooler/lines aren't designed properly, they can create a significant pressure drop in the system which results in less pressure for the components that need it. What you can't do is a make a blanket statement -- "Oil coolers decrease oil pressure". It's simply not always true - in my experience it's NEVER been true. If the cooler/core is a quality unit, and the hoses/fittings are large enough to reduce any pressure drop, and the hoses aren't too long -- no significant pressure drop will occur. I've never seen a pressure drop with any cooler I've put on one of my cars - and I've installed quite a few over the years. In cases where the car tended to really cook the oil, I've seen the opposite -- pressure actually increases because the oil is cooler and consequently the viscosity is higher. Just be sure you get a quality unit. You might want to dig into it a bit more with your builder/mechanic and see if you can understand his thinking.

The other thing to think about is where you locate the cooler itself. Many put it in front of the radiator without regard to the implications of that. It turns your radiator into your oil cooler. You need to be sure you have the extra radiator capacity necessary to remove the heat from the oil too - because the hot air off the cooler (almost always at least as hot as your t'stat temp) goes right back across the radiator - at best rendering that portion of the radiator neutral in terms of heat removal; at worst - actually ADDING heat into the coolant.

I mounted mine down low behind the bumper/front air dam and blocked off the backside so that hot air off the cooler goes under the car without passing back over the a/c condenser or the radiator. So I've got true incremental cooling capacity with the oil cooler add. Here's a pic - with the bumper/air dam removed - you can see the aluminum gutter flashing behind that blocks airflow off the cooler from hitting the lower portion of the condenser/rad. http://www.stangcity.com/showphoto.php/photo/2352/cat/500/page/3

As for the 7 qt. pan -- I believe that it will increase the amount of time it takes for the oil to hit it's top temp - which could help a drag racer or autocrosser that can cool down between runs and doesn't run the car for very long. But I don't think it will significantly reduce oil operating temp for street cars or road racers. Most folks I know that have used the deeper pans/pickups (seen them on lots of road racers of all different makes) don't put '7 qts.' in anyway. They put the stock 5 qts. in -- the pan depth is there not so much for extra capacity but to move the oil away from the crank to reduce windage losses.

 

[Dbeck002]

dbeck - In addition to JT's comments about break-down of the lubricating properties of the oil, as oil temperature increases, viscosity drops, and almost always oil pressure drops with decreasing viscosity. I saw significant increases in oil pressure with reduced temperatures as well. Lastly, the higher the oil temp, the more thermal expansion engine components see. That impacts wear in the engine, and also shortens the life of gaskets and seals.

There are also challenges with oil running too cool - so some sort of t'stat for the oil cooling system is usually a requirement, especially for street cars that see winter duty with low ambient temps. Ideally, you'd like to see oil temps in the 210-220F range. There's a reason the high temp viscosity rating temp (the one that applies to the second number on a multi-vis oil) is set at 100C degrees = 212F. That's an ideal hot operating temp for the oil. Warm enough for the oil to be at a viscosity the engine can deal with for the long term and to boil off condensation in the crankcase; cool enough to allow for longer oil life (less breakdown), less wear and tear on the engine and gaskets.

By the way, all of this is independent of HP output of an engine. It doesn't matter how much HP the engine makes -- there's an ideal oil operating temp -- and 250-270F ain't it. And it's amazing how the oil temp will climb when you work the engine hard. On my dyno pulls, you could see the gauge start at about 180F-190F, and it would climb into the 220F range just with one pull (WITH the cooler). Typically, however, a higher output engine is capable of putting more heat INTO the oil more quickly when it's running under high load.

What are your oil temps running dbeck?

I am not sure what my oil temps are. I dont have an oil temp gauge.

But i can tell you this, the engine itself (monitoring coolant) stays very cool even here in south florida. So even if i were to run it hard, the oil would cool down pretty fast because my cooling system is well setup. I know that doesnt say much, but its better to have hot oil in a cool engine than hot oil in a hot engine. That way at least the coolant can help cool the oil.

I ordered 2 gauges and an A pillar a few days ago, i dont think ill be getting the oil temp gauge.

Can I just buy the oil cooler and forget the gauge, call it a day?

Thanks.

 

[srothfuss]

Can I just buy the oil cooler and forget the gauge, call it a day?

FRPP sells them for $115.00 out of their catalog. It's the best one since it comes with everything you need to install it.

 

[2000xp8]

I went to my buddies mustang shop today and asked his opinion on oil coolers and gauges, he feels unless you have a supercharger/turbo that is oil cooled/lubricated or the car is heavily modified, they aren't really necessary.
A well working cooling system is enough.

And Dbeck, if you put a cooler on your car and it doesn't need it, your oil will not be warm enough, and that can be as bad as too hot.
If anything, get the gauge and see if you need the cooler.

 

[Michael Yount]

If I had to choose between one or the other - sure, I'd choose the cooler. It's the one that actually DOES something about higher temps. I'll promise you - especially in FL - your oil temps are high. The 5.0's are known for it. I was shocked when I first installed my gauge - as I mentioned earlier in the post -- mine wouldn't drop below 250F once the car was warmed up - and they'd get as high as 270F. That's what let me know I wanted/needed an oil cooler. But, as with anything else, it's up to you.

I bought the one sroth referenced - the FRPP unit. Had everything I needed to install it on the Volvo.

 

[HISSIN50]

If the cooler is regulated (intrinisically by design, or with a t-stat) the oil being overcooled should not be an issue.

The oil temp is generally a good ways beyond coolant temps, so even if coolant temps are at 190*F, oil can be at 250*F+.

 

[Dbeck002]

Does synthetic oil stand up better to heat than a semi synthetic?

Does the FRPP oil cooler come with the temperature regulated valve that only lets oil flow through when it gets hot?



OT: I ordered a 2 gauge pod A pillar so i need room for the 3rd gage. Does anyone know who sells the single gauge pod that is mounted directly in front of the steering wheel, its a plastic molding that replaces the steering wheel column cover, except this one has room for a gauge.

Thanks all.

 

[stangjunkie]

whatever you do go with electrical guages... i had a mechanical oil pressure and i nailed a bump and the SOB broke loose and my croch then became the temp sensor and that was no fun... i know this probably only happens once in a blue moon... but... nightmears..... electrical...

 

[Dbeck002]

lol too late i ordered 2 mechanical gauges, coolant temp and oil press.

I am using braided stainless for the oil.

 

[Michael Yount]

Synthetic holds up to high temps best of all - no comparison to dino oil there.

The FRPP cooler is a stacked-plate core that self regulates on temps.

 

[The Shape]

I would say that I prefer mechanical gauges just for the full sweep. On a narrow sweep temp gauge, for instance (there are full sweep electric gauges for $$), the needlewidth can be worth 20*F on some gauges. Not good.

I agree with that. I had an electric autometer sport comp gauge , and it was about as hard to read as the factory gauge. Seemed like one width of the needle was about 10-15 p.s.i. I wonder why no one makes a full sweep electronic oil pressure gauge? Maybe they do and I just haven't seen it??

 

[The Shape]

whatever you do go with electrical guages... i had a mechanical oil pressure and i nailed a bump and the SOB broke loose and my croch then became the temp sensor and that was no fun... i know this probably only happens once in a blue moon... but... nightmears..... electrical...

And this is why I went with electrical in the first place. The thing thad I Wonder about with the epcetric gauges though is aren't they only as good as your electrical system. I mean we all know the stock Fox alternator is just barely up to the task in a stock application. Like say if you come to a stop and your stock alternator isn't putting out quite enough juice ayt idle. Wouldn't that make say and electrice oil pressure gauge read low? Or would it?