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  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-

Top End Swap Questions (H/C/I)

  • Thread starter Thread starter KFRG
  • Start date Start date Mar 21, 2009
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KFRG

New Member
Jan 6, 2004
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Mar 21, 2009
#1
  • Mar 21, 2009
  • #1
Hey guys,
How difficult is this project to perform on your own, preferably with the engine still in the car? I have basic mechanical skills, and for the most part will be working alone, armed with a Chilton manual, and a garage with limited space, so this would definitely be an experience for me.
It seems alot of people have good things to say about the Trick Flow kit, but how does it stack against the competition for a mild street car?
From what I have read it's a ready to run kit, but would it be worth it to have the intake and heads ported out of the box?

Anything in particular one should know before starting this project?

Thanks guys
 

russ1979

Member
Oct 6, 2006
152
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16
albuquerque, new mexico
Mar 22, 2009
#2
  • Mar 22, 2009
  • #2
opcorn:waching this one
 

SteedaGT9150

Advanced Member
Nov 10, 2004
1,351
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68
Maryland
Mar 22, 2009
#3
  • Mar 22, 2009
  • #3
yeah, your gonna need some tools and a case of PBR
 

Chuckman

GTFO you fat, heavy bastard
15 Year Member
Oct 21, 2005
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Mar 22, 2009
#4
  • Mar 22, 2009
  • #4
http://forums.stangnet.com/724578-87-95-heads-cam-intake-install-help.html
 

bubba-dough

Active Member
Dec 28, 2004
1,044
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Indiana
Mar 22, 2009
#5
  • Mar 22, 2009
  • #5
SteedaGT9150 said:
yeah, your gonna need some tools and a case of PBR
Click to expand...
PBR

The Trick Flow kit is a good kit. It does not come with lifters so keep that in mind. Its not a horrible job but it is a pretty big project for the beginner. Goodluck.
 

SteedaGT9150

Advanced Member
Nov 10, 2004
1,351
59
68
Maryland
Mar 22, 2009
#6
  • Mar 22, 2009
  • #6
bubba-dough said:
PBR

The Trick Flow kit is a good kit. It does not come with lifters nor pushrods so keep that in mind. You can possibly re-use the pushrods but definately get new lifters.
Its not a horrible job but it is a pretty big project for the beginner. Goodluck.
Click to expand...

whats wrong with PBR? its cheap, delicious, and gets you ****ed up. Ide rather drink PBR than natty
 

deftsound

Please ask me how much my supercharger cost
Apr 6, 2004
945
1
39
Texas City TX
Mar 22, 2009
#7
  • Mar 22, 2009
  • #7
I too would like some insight to this subject, im going to be doing the same thing soon...
 

306notchback

Member
Dec 24, 2007
62
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7
Bells, Tx.
Mar 22, 2009
#8
  • Mar 22, 2009
  • #8
It can be done easily in a day with air tools! My car is carbed but me and another buddy did it with no problem! The difference in power and torque over stock is night and day! Good luck
 
K

KFRG

New Member
Jan 6, 2004
41
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Mar 22, 2009
#9
  • Mar 22, 2009
  • #9
Thanks for the replies guys. Great link, any other online references? Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of air tools, just a basic tool set. I guess I just need to pick up a torque wrench and some more swivel sockets and extensions.
To those have run this kit, did you just bolt the heads and intake on out of the box, or did you have them ported?
 

fiveohwblow

Official Member
15 Year Member
Jul 21, 2005
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Mar 22, 2009
#10
  • Mar 22, 2009
  • #10
You will end up picking up a lot more tools and gaskets and other miscellaneous parts you didn't expect but overall it is doable. It does not take an extensive knowledge. My old man and I did it for the first time in my limited garage with my limited tools and with the engine still in the car. I wouldn't try to do it all in one day if I were you, but if you do kudos to you!!

Cant hurt too much trying on your own, DO IT
 
K

KFRG

New Member
Jan 6, 2004
41
0
0
Mar 22, 2009
#11
  • Mar 22, 2009
  • #11
Thanks for the encouragement Fiveoh. At first I was between performing the swap myself or paying a shop to do it, but then after serious thought I said to myself, why did I buy a 20-year old car to pay someone else to wrench on? That should be part of ownership!
And no, I don't expect to have the swap finished in a day, although that would be nice.
I have all the time in the world, she's my weekend toy. But I would like to get started ASAP so I can have her ready for the summer.

Thanks.
 

cenok is family

15 Year Member
Jun 25, 2003
1,409
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79
Norman, Ok
Mar 22, 2009
#12
  • Mar 22, 2009
  • #12
it's easy man. i swapped the heads and cam on my car in a day. the only real "technical" knowledge you'll need to know is how to set valve lash and making sure you stab the dizzy correctly. the rest is just nuts and bolts man. just take your time, label everything and remember how it all goes back together.
 

fiveohwblow

Official Member
15 Year Member
Jul 21, 2005
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Mar 22, 2009
#13
  • Mar 22, 2009
  • #13
cenok is family said:
it's easy man. i swapped the heads and cam on my car in a day. the only real "technical" knowledge you'll need to know is how to set valve lash and making sure you stab the dizzy correctly. the rest is just nuts and bolts man. just take your time, label everything and remember how it all goes back together.
Click to expand...

That is some of the most vital advice. Find a way to label everything and I agree its mainly nuts and bolts. You are welcome for the encouragement, I think we all mean it. Gives you a sense of building and not buying your power which is rather rewarding. Go get started!
 

1991notchbackLX

Active Member
Dec 25, 2007
1,483
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48
New York
Mar 22, 2009
#14
  • Mar 22, 2009
  • #14
PM sent

the most valuable tool you'll need for the swap (aside from a torque wrench) will be a big box of the ziploc bags with the labels you can write on, take my word for it good luck! it's definitely something someone with a little bit of knowledge and some motivation can do in a driveway or garage
 

mob

the guy who hits on his mom
20+ Year Stangneter
Oct 3, 2003
2,566
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Mar 22, 2009
#15
  • Mar 22, 2009
  • #15
It can be done, i would see if a member on stangnet that has done it before can meet up with you to help you out. It'll help to have someone who knows what their doing. Im not sure on the cam, never done one, doing it with the engine in may be a pain as well but can be done. Itll be better to have someone though so that you have some assurance when its all done.
 
K

KFRG

New Member
Jan 6, 2004
41
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Mar 23, 2009
#16
  • Mar 23, 2009
  • #16
Thanks again guys, im sure i'll have more than a few questions as soon as I get started.
 

fiveohwblow

Official Member
15 Year Member
Jul 21, 2005
2,169
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Mar 23, 2009
#17
  • Mar 23, 2009
  • #17
mob said:
It can be done, i would see if a member on stangnet that has done it before can meet up with you to help you out. It'll help to have someone who knows what their doing. Im not sure on the cam, never done one, doing it with the engine in may be a pain as well but can be done. Itll be better to have someone though so that you have some assurance when its all done.
Click to expand...

With the cam its best and only possible really to do this with the radiator and AC rad out. Its a bit tricky but not too much...
 

85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end
15 Year Member
Nov 11, 2003
6,945
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Northern KY
Mar 23, 2009
#18
  • Mar 23, 2009
  • #18
It's more or less just unbolting/bolting things together...don't psyche yourself out and make it into more than it is. The only tools you'll need beyond basic ratchets/sockets/wrenches is a puller for the balancer. The things that make this difficult to do while keeping the engine in the car is if you wanna check piston to valve clearance or if you wanna degree the cam.

A couple tips off the top of my head....

1) It helps to break any bolt loose that the serpentine belt can help you with...such as the water pump pulley bolts, the crank bolt, etc.

2) Take your time and pay attention to details. The manuals will help but they're pretty vague on the details. Keep the internet handy...

3) When you go to put the timing cover back on, you'll need to seal the oil pan to timing cover. There are "corner" gaskets for this, but what i did the last 2 times is just put on a liberal amount of good quality RTV gasket maker, making sure to get into the corners. You really can't use too much...just make sure you put down a good 1/8 inch layer and bolt it together...this will seal better than the crappy cork corner gaskets. (if this sounds hard to imagine, it'll make sense you you get to this part).

4) Get a new timing chain while you're in there. You can get a decent Cloyes double roller for about $25 from Advanced Autoparts or Autozone. If you have the cash and are planning on playing with the cam degree, you may wanna order a Ford Racing or Comp Cams setup that has different keyway indexes for advance/retard on the cam. It'd be silly to do an H/C/I and install the old and busted timing chain. Also while you're at it, put a new main seal in your timing cover...again, just good insurance.

5) For me, i like to keep things as organized as i can because nothing pisses me off like losing a bolt. There's a lot of things that can make this process go very smoothly....get a box of heavy duty freezer bags or good sized ziplock bags and when you take something off like the power steering, put the bolts in a bad and zip it and label the bag as what the bolts went to. This may sound silly but if you spend a couple days doing the swap, it's very easy to forget what goes where even if you've done it a bunch of times. It makes it so much easier when it's time to put everything back together.

6) I would highly recommend doing a piston to valve clearance check. It's a little trickier to do with the engine in the car but it's doable. Unless you go with a proven cam with minimal specs, like an E303 that you know every Ford guy on Earth has put in a stock piston 302 without clearance issues, then it's good insurance to check. Even if you buy a cam that says it'll fit, there are differences in head deck thicknesses that could cause you to have clearance issues. It's also a good idea to measure for the right length pushrods. If you do measure for them, be sure NOT to turn the engine over with the adjustable pushrod in...it'll break it.

7) For the front/rear intake to block gaskets, i like to use a thick (1/2 inch or so) bead of RTV instead of the cork or rubber gaskets. Make sure you get it in the corners good and let it set up for about 5 minutes before you drop the intake down.

I dunno...that's just a few things that stand out in my mind from the last time i did it. Pay attention to how things are put together when you're taking them apart. For me it was the fear of the unknown that intimidated me the first time i went this deep into my engine. Get a digital camera and take pics of things before you take them apart if that'll help you remember.
 

jrichker

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#19
  • Mar 23, 2009
  • #19
Cylinder head removal & replacement, all types of heads on a 5.0 Mustang

Plan on 3 days to do the job if you haven't done it before.

Day one gets the heads off in 4-6 hours. Remove the A/C compressor mount bolts and move the compressor out of the way.
The A/C compressor swings out of the way without disconnecting any of the lines or losing any refrigerant.
Mark all the electrical, smog and vacuum lines with tags to help you remember where to re-connect them.

Day two gets all the gasket surfaces scraped off extra clean and the heads dropped off at the machine shop if you are going to
have them reconditioned. Time here is another 4-6 hours. Whatever you do, don't skimp on cleaning the gasket surfaces.
New gaskets need to seat against bare metal and not the residue left from the old gaskets in order to seal leak free.
This is the most time consuming and tiresome part of the job. Look for little things that need to be replaced like the short
hose from the thermostat hosing to the water pump, damaged vacuum lines and hose clamps that are rusted or broken.

Day three starts when you get the heads back from the machine shop. This is the time to pick up all the little odd pieces
you found needing replacement on your day two inspection/cleanup. Plan on 6-8 hours to reinstall the heads and reconnect
everything. Plan on an additional 2 hours to troubleshoot/adjust everything.

Now for some practical tips:

Plan on cutting the thermostat to water pump hose, or removing the thermostat housing. Also plan on removing the distributor
to get clearance to remove the intake manifold. Remove #1 spark plug, stick your finger in the spark plug hole and crank.
When your finger gets air moving past it, stop cranking. Turn the engine until the timing marks line up with the pointer.
Make a scribe mark on the distributor base and engine block. Now you can pull the distributor out. When you re-install the
distributor back in the engine, make sure you are still on TDC compression for #1 and then line up the scribe mark on the
distributor and engine. You will be very close to where the engine was timed when you took out the distributor.

You'll need new head bolts - get ARP bolts ($40) or studs ($93, maybe more). The ARP bolts have a radius under the heads.
The washers that come with the bolts have a chamfer cut in them. The radius under the bolt head mates up with the chamfer
on the washer. Fail to do this and the bolts will never torque down properly. All the bolts get antiseize under the bolt heads,
and everything but the short head bolts get it on the threads. You need Teflon pipe dope or ARP sealant to coat the threads
of the short head bolts. The short bolts go into the water jacket and will seep coolant if you don't use the sealant.

My favorite trick that saves time and effort is the stay in place gasket. Be sure that you scrape (don't use a wire brush) all
the old gasket material off, then clean all the surfaces with acetone or MEK.

When the surfaces are clean, use weather strip adhesive on the head to manifold surface, and on the side of the gasket that
mates to the head. Follow the instructions on the tube or can and when it gets tacky, press the gasket down on the head.

Clean the area where the rubber rails mount to the block in front and in the rear with more acetone or MEK and do the same
trick with the weather strip adhesive that you did to the heads.

Coat the rubber seals and the gasket area around the water passages with lots of Blue Silicone gasket sealer and put it together.
Walla! No leaks and no gaskets that shifted out of place.

If you reuse the injectors from your old setup, a repair kit is available from most auto parts stores if needed. Coat the injector body
"O" rings with oil before you use them and everything will slide back together.

For iron heads, clean the combustion chambers with a wire brush in an air or electric drill. I used a scraper for the pistons.
I don't like to use the wire brush on pistons because it will remove metal very easily.

Change the oil once you get everything back together. Once the engine is up & running, run it for 1-2 hours and change the oil.

Tools: a good torque wrench is a must have item. A razor blade scraper that holds a single edge razor blade from Home Depot
or Ace hardware is another handy thing. Get a Chilton or Haynes shop manual - you'll need it for the bolt torques and patterns.
The intake manifold has an especially odd pattern. You'll need access to a timing light to set the timing after you re-stab the distributor.

Consumable parts:
Fuel injector seal kits with 2 O rings and a pintle cap (Borg-Warner P/N 274081) are available at Pep Boys auto parts.
Cost is about $2.74 per kit. The pintle caps fit either injectors with a pin sticking out the injector end or 4 with more tiny
holes in the injector end. The following are listed at the Borg-Warner site ( BWD Automotive ) as being
resellers of Borg-Warner parts:

Parts Plus - Premium Auto Parts & Accessories or Auto Value / Bumper to Bumper Quality Parts & Service - Home of the Aftermarket Auto Parts Alliance Group or Auto Parts, Auto Service, Tires, Wheels, Car Care | Pep Boys Auto - Parts & Service or Federated Auto Parts - Automotive Aftermarket

Most of the links above have store locators for find a store in your area.

Head gaskets
upper manifold gasket
lower manifold gasket set.
Exhaust manifold gasket set
Rocker cover gaskets - look for the rubber ones with the steel bushings - Summit has them
Short formed hose between thermostat hosing and intake manifold
6 ft 7/64" or 1/8" vacuum hose
2 ft 1/2" heater hose
1 1/2 ft 5/8" heater hose
Blue Silicone sealer
ARP antiseize or equal for the bolts
ARP thread sealer or Teflon pipe dope for the short bolts.
4 each 3/4" hose clamps (spare item in case the old ones are bad)
4 each 1/2" hose clamps (spare item)

Machine shop charges will vary - figure $275-$350 to have heads checked for cracks, cleaned, surfaced, valves ground,
valve guides reconditioned, valve springs checked and bad springs replaced.
 

stykthyn

I want to measure mine. It doesn't look that tall.
15 Year Member
Jul 6, 2006
5,232
2,652
223
gainesville
Mar 23, 2009
#20
  • Mar 23, 2009
  • #20
I always take pics of the teardown with a camera so if i do get stuck or cant figure out where a particular bolt goes I can refer back to a pic. the ziploc baggies are a must too.
 
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