Total Suspension Review, experts please come in.

[Pokageek]

LCA's - prevents wheel hop. Good mod overall.
UCA's - forgot what this does but have heard of bad vibration issues with them.

Panhard Bar - Helps with handling and launching?
Torque Arm - Helps with handling and launching?

Swarr Barr - Helps prevent axle tubes from rotating (so does welding) and supposed better launching.. The one review I have heard of this noticed no difference in his 93' musting.

Subframe connectors...all different. I have Kenny brown t-subframes and notice no ifference onmy vert.

My situation is that my rear suspension feels way loose when I hit the gas. Squirely, sloppy hoppy, etc..

I have LCA's, subframe connectors and eibach pro srpings. I have mentioned considering going p-bar and tq arm but wondering what your impressions are of all these options. Are UCA's that helpful? DO they destroy the ride?

 

[DDSTANG94]

have u considered going to poly bushings??

 

[Car Nut]

Loose??? New bushings help a lot, especially poly bushings. Here's some places for bushing replacements:

End Links
Sway bars (front)
Replace front A arm (The Cobra front A arms are a good set)
If using UCAs, the Ford replacements are probably best (no poly here)

Don't overlook the importance of shocks/struts. If they are overly worn, replace them with new ones for sure.



Subframe connectors tie the front subframe to the rear subframe. They help keep the overall frame stay in alignment over the course of many years AND they allow other suspension parts to do their job better and give you more performance (since the overall vehicle is properly supported).

Panhard Bars help keep the rear end stabilized during cornering making the rear predictable, safer, and more capable in holding traction. A few paragraphs could be written to describe all the benefits and functions of the panhard bar and torque arm.


I'd do the torque arm last and do everything else. If you want more OR are considering a few autocross events each year, then a TA may be fun for sure. For a street car, you'd be in great shape without it. Depends also on your funds.

Try to stick with a specific company with proven parts/research/kits. Mismatching parts from various companies may result in something less than stellar or intended. Granted, you could end up with something better than stock, but why not maximize your parts/performance and get the most out of a proper setup.


Last but not least, all those suspension parts will work wonders with a brake upgrade. You'll appreciate the braking improvements that go with a well thought out suspension.

 

[BlueOvalStangGT]

What is a end link again?

 

[Car Nut]

What is a end link again?

End links are up front where the sway bars attach.

Here's a link to give you an idea: http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy01.asp?T1=98124G+01&Category=&catkey=74-01


You can see them usually through the front wheel area, but get underneath the car and you can't miss them.

 

[Pokageek]

Thanks guys. I have new uppers and they are oem though. Are you saying the Ford racing uppers are better?

On the polys..specifically the rear, where would you put them? My adjustable lowers already have them.

I hear the rear sway bar does nothing and even has a tendancy to break. I looked into a replacement bar a long time ago but the largest I would find was 23..or 28mm I forget..the same size as the cobra.

Then you have the adjustable ones that tack on to the existing one..but what if they oem one breaks...and again, I haven't heard that it does anything.

How can I get better traction and more power to the road? is that the poly's? upper contrl arms? sway bar? I was also thinking of getting better sub frames..

Here's more I found on the swarr: "Easy bolt in design, constructed of mild tubular steel that has been TIG welded for strength and durability, and powder-coated black to last. The Swarr Bar keeps your rear end from flexing under load from the torque produced by high performance mustangs eliminating rear wheel hop getting the power to the ground were it's needed. "

 

[Car Nut]

Pokageek,

Your questions all have an underlying problem and a fix. The problem is that there may be no great solution if you just mix/match parts. The fix is to go with stuff in kit form.

Talking sway bars, the Eibach sway bar kit is really good and will work beautifully with most spring/shock/strut upgrades. The size of the sway bar is not so much the point, as long as it works well with the other stuff you've got. The stock sway bar is prone to breaking over several years (though some never do). No bushing with the rear sway bar.

Bushings for the rear: Poly in the LCAs. Stock UCAs are good and are possibly the same as the FRPP ones. Either way, rubber bushings only in the UCAs.

Not sure what the spring rate of your Eibachs are, but they are probably a bit stiffer than stock. I've got springs that are much stiffer than stock, but that was intentional for the type of handling I wanted: almost no nose dive (braking), flat in corners, nearly no body roll, and more control as the power increases in the upcoming years.


With all that's been mentioned so far, the only other factor is tires, traction, and proper air pressure.

The sloppiness for me went away when the UCAs, LCAs, and front stuff was added. It was very nice and nearly perfect. The panhard bar and swaybars were icing on the cake. Since I had done so much, getting rid of the stock sway bars seemed to make sense. The downside......... now I need more power from the motor.

 

[Car Nut]

Another thing:

Not sure how much power your putting down with a 414 stroker, but at some point, there is only so much you can do with a ton of power.

If that motor weighs a good bit more than the stock 302, start transferring weight to the back and off the front (battery relocation, etc.).

 

[Pokageek]

Thanks Car Nut. The motor weighs 50# more IIRC. I deleted the 25# weight from the fender, #40 of a/c, and 25# of hood using a fg hood. So I am actually 40# lighter.

I will do the battery next.

Interesting how my back end wants to squirm, twist and everything and we have close to the same set up.

 

[Killercanary]

Have you checked the bushings in the axle side of the UCA? As mentioned you absolutely do not want to run poly bushings in the uppers as they will cause binding since our rear suspension is an unequal, unparalleled 4 link. Here's a good link to read up on the mustang rear supsension and it should answer all your questions.

http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension.htm

 

[Car Nut]

Killercanary is right (and great article).

New UCAs do not come with the upper bushings, so if those are stock, get them replaced. Mine were beyond shot on both ends. Couldn't believe how many squeaks and creaks were fixed after upgrading the rear stuff.

The only odd piece I have that is suspension related is in the front: MM K-member brace. It helps the K member stay in place and not flex (or not as much). Since I have no interest in coilovers, that was the finishing touch. Once my tie rods need replacing, I'll upgrade that as well.


I bet your probably only one specific worn part away from getting what you want.

 

[BlueOvalStangGT]

Are polyurethane bushings loud?

 

[Pokageek]

thanks. I havent had time to but I will definitely read that article. So I am trying to do this on a bit of a budget but if yo uwere me would you go swarr bar or panhard bar right now if you had to vote for one or the other?

 

[Killercanary]

I like Eric and would mlove to send business his way, but I think a panhard bar is your best bet if the rear feels loose. Unless your axle tubes are moving in the housing I don't think that is your problem at this point.

Here's a quick cliff note on panhard bars and torque arms: panhard controls the side to side movement of the rear, the torque arm controls the vertical movement and helps with reducing brake nose diving and application of power to the ground.

 

[Car Nut]

+1 on the panhard bar

 

[Pokageek]

makes sense paul. also, My uca's are almost new to answer your question,

 

[final5-0]

Great thread Keith

Lots of good info in here :Word:

I don't know much about suspension stuff other than just basic info

I'm a watchin opcorn:
and
I'll be a learnin

What I really want to have is a suspension that has all the benefits
when you add the mods that have been talked about here

but

I want those benefits
and
I don't want any NVH

I'm waiting on the experts here to explain how to do it

Grady

 

[Car Nut]

Grady,

About the NVH, I have less than when I started the suspension mods, except the Harshness aspect.

For anyone wanting a street setup AND demanding a very comfortable ride not far from stock, I would highly recommend everything I have on my stang so far EXCEPT for the H&R Race Springs. The Race springs are nice, firm, and it is immediately obvious what benefits/trade-offs they give. Swapping out Race springs for Steeda, Eibach, or even the Bullitt springs (depends on the drop desired) would soften the ride.

Granted, I enjoy the Race springs and compare their harshness to a new Porsche 911. The harshness is about the same in my opinion. Handling is improved a great deal and braking is a whole nother world (a serious decrease in nose dive and a ton more control).

2.5 inch tailpipes can also get in the way of the panhard bar. I added a layer of header wrap in two places on the panhard bar assembly where the tailpipe came close or rubbed. No noise issues now.

I'm no expert......just someone who did some research and bit the bullet by going with Maximum Motorsports due to the praise on this site and the description of the products results. I am very happy with everything.

 

[Pokageek]

Thanks Grady. As mentioned in my sig you may want to know that personally with the tokico's, I know they must be better than stock but the ride is much better with the stock shocks. Especially in the front. The eibach springs lowered the car without harshness but the tokicos roughed it up a bit.

 

[S351Saleen77]

A torque arm and panhard bar are the way to fix your problem, but expensive.
I would do the panhard bar first. I like Griggs but they are spendy. Maximum Motorsports is good stuff and they are more user friendly with the exhaust. With the Griggs I had to modify the exhaust big time to make it fit.

The problem with the rear end is the Ford design, they do have spherical bushings now for the upper control arms where they attach to the rear end to prevent binding. With a Torque arm and panhard bar you throw away your upper arms they are not used anymore.

Griggs had a big article on the rear but I think its on their old website, heres a link to the new one that has good info. You can still go to the old site I saw a link on the new one. They said to do the rear first before anything else. It seems like everyone puts on a aftermarket K member but uses the Ford setup in the rear.

When I bought my car it had the Griggs front but not the rear. After I did the rear it was like a different car!! It hooks way better and the rear doesn't lift under hard braking. The car handles completely different than a stock style suspension. It is amazing!

http://www.griggsracing.com/article_info.php?articles_id=16


Below is the the home page, Click on John Griggs 98 Cobra and you can see the car in action! It says to date no Ferrari has beat him

http://www.griggsracing.com/