Tps Voltage Question

[grnhays]

Hi all, just picked up a 86 LX, and think I've run into a idling issue. The motor is a 306 EFI,
GT40 Crate motor
42lb injectors
Bama 4 Bank Chip
70MM TB
76MM Turbo/w 10lbs boost
B303 Cam
GT40X Heads

The car has a hard time idling for the first 30 seconds or so. I've got play with the gas pedal to keep it running. After that, it idles low, gas pedal has some hesitation, but will catch. The gas smell from the exhaust, is almost unbearable.

I did the typical, cleaning of IAC, Throttle body, checked voltage at the TPS. The Voltage was at 1.46V. I though it was supposed to be .98V? Would the voltage be the problem?

Any insight would be appreciated

 

[jrichker]

TPS Troubleshooting and testing

Revised 2 July 2014 to reflect changes in resistance values for testing of TPS wiring.

Setting the TPS: you'll need a good Digital Voltmeter (DVM) to do the job. Set the TPS voltage at .5- 1.1 range. Because of the variables involved with the tolerances of both computer and DVM, I would shoot for somewhere between .6 and 1.0 volts. Unless you have a Fluke or other high grade DVM, the second digit past the decimal point on cheap DVM’s is probably fantasy. Since the computer zeros out the TPS voltage every time it powers up, playing with the settings isn't an effective aid to performance or drivability. The main purpose of checking the TPS is to make sure it isn't way out of range and causing problems.


Wire colors & functions:
Orange/white = 5 volt VREF from the computer
Dark Green/lt green = TPS output to computer
Black/white = Signal ground from computer

TPS troubleshooting steps:
1.) Use the Orange/white & Black white wires to verify the TPS has the correct 5 volts source from the computer.
2.) Use the Dark Green/lt green & Black/white wires to set the TPS base voltage. Try this... All you need is less than 1.0 volt at idle and more than 4.25 at Wide Open Throttle (WOT). You'll need a voltmeter with a 1 or 3 volt low scale to do the job.

The Orange/White wire is the VREF 5 volts from the computer. You use the Dark Green/Lt green wire (TPS signal) and the Black/White wire (TPS ground) to set the TPS. Use a pair of safety pins to probe the TPS connector from the rear of the connector. You may find it a little difficult to make a good connection, but keep trying. Put the safety pins in the Dark Green/Lt green wire and Black/White wire. Make sure the ignition switch is in the Run position but the engine isn't running. Set the voltmeter on the 2 volt range if it doesn’t auto range.

Here’s a TPS tip I got from NoGo50

When you installed the sensor make sure you place it on the peg right and then tighten it down properly. Loosen the back screw a tiny bit so the sensor can pivot and loosen the front screw enough so you can move it just a little in very small increments. I wouldn’t try to adjust it using marks.

(copied from MustangMax, Glendale AZ)

A.) Always adjust the TPS and Idle with the engine at operating temp. Dive it around for a bit if you can and get it nice and warm.

B.) When you probe the leads of the TPS, do not use an engine ground, put the ground probe into the lead of the TPS. You should be connecting both meter probes to the TPS and not one to the TPS and the other to ground.

C.) Always reset the computer whenever you adjust the TPS or clean/change any sensors. I just pull the battery lead for 10 minutes.

D.) The key is to adjust the TPS voltage and reset the computer whenever the idle screw is changed.

The TPS is a variable resistor, must like the volume control knob on a cheap radio. We have all heard them crackle and pop when the volume is adjusted. The TPS sensor has the same problem: wear on the resistor element makes places that create electrical noise. This electrical noise confuses the computer, because it expects to see a smooth increase or decrease as the throttle is opened or closed.

TPS testing: most of the time a failed TPS will set code 23 or 63, but not always. Use either an analog meter or a DVM with an analog bar graph and connect the leads as instructed above. Turn the ignition switch to the Run position, but do not start the engine. Note the voltage with the throttle closed. Slowly open the throttle and watch the voltage increase smoothly, slowly close the throttle and watch the voltage decrease smoothly. If the voltage jumps around and isn’t smooth, the TPS has some worn places in the resistor element. When the throttle is closed, make sure that the voltage is the same as what it was when you started. If it varies more than 10%, the TPS is suspect of being worn in the idle range of its travel.

TPS will not go below 1 volt

Note: Make all resistance checks with the ignition switch in the OFF position. Failure to do so will result in incorrect results and may possibly damage the meter.

Engine mounted sensor circuit: Check the resistance between the black/white wire on the TPS and battery ground. It should be less than 1 ohm. Higher resistance than 1 ohm indicates a problem with the 10 pin connector, computer or the splice inside the main harness where the wire from the 10 pin connectors joins the rest of the black/white wire.

See the graphic for the location of the 10 pin connectors:
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.

Unplug the white 10 pin connector to do some resistance testing. It is good time to clean the connector pins and examine the connector for corrosion, broken wire or other damage. See http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=85 for help in this department.

If the resistance on the TPS Black/White wire and pin 1 of the white engine fuel injector harness 10 pin connector, is more than 1.0 ohm, you have bad connection or broken wiring. Repeat the test using the pin 1 of the white body side 10 pin connector and battery ground. You should have less that 1 ohm. More than that is a damaged signal ground inside the computer or bad connections or wiring.[/b]

 

[Mustang5L5]

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/adjusting-your-tps-to-0-98v-is-not-necessary.825424/

 

[grnhays]

Thanks for the detailed info! I'll give it a go tonight.

 

[mikestang63]

Hi all, just picked up a 86 LX, and think I've run into a idling issue. The motor is a 306 EFI,
GT40 Crate motor
42lb injectors
Bama 4 Bank Chip
70MM TB
76MM Turbo/w 10lbs boost
B303 Cam
GT40X Heads

The car has a hard time idling for the first 30 seconds or so. I've got play with the gas pedal to keep it running. After that, it idles low, gas pedal has some hesitation, but will catch. The gas smell from the exhaust, is almost unbearable.

I did the typical, cleaning of IAC, Throttle body, checked voltage at the TPS. The Voltage was at 1.46V. I though it was supposed to be .98V? Would the voltage be the problem?

Any insight would be appreciated

what MAF are you running

I would run the codes first .

NOT a fan of Bama chips- they tend to cause more harm than good.

 

[grnhays]

what MAF are you running

I would run the codes first .

NOT a fan of Bama chips- they tend to cause more harm than good.

For MAF, I'm running a 3" Protube.

This is my first EFI Mustang. I'm kinda missing the good ol carburetion. But, at least I'm learning something new.

 

[madspeed]

I also suggest you run the codes, it could be something sensor related. Some like an ect sensor can wreak havoc when they go

 

[grnhays]

Update:

Pulled the codes from the car. I did the KOEO Test with a code reader. I got the following codes.

Code 67 - Neutral Drive Switch
Code 85 - Canister Purge Solenoid
Code 95 - Fuel Pump Secondary Circuit

My Continuous Memory codes were:

Code 66 - TOT Sensor
Code 95 - Fuel Pump Secondary Circuit

I also checked the TPS Sensor while the engine was warmed up. I was still over 1v. I dropped it down to .8v, then reset the computer (disconnected battery cable for 30 min)

Can I do a KOER test while codes are in the continuous memory?

Is there a way to clear codes?

 

[jrichker]

Do you have good resistance readings between the black/white wire on the connector that the TPS sensor plugs and the battery ground terminal? You should see 1 ohm or less, less is better.

The Code 66 is the first one that needs to be investigated. It isn't a TOT code because there isn't a TOT sensor on a 5.0 pushrod engine. It is a MAF code.

With a code 67, you can't normally get the engine running codes to dump...

Code 67 –
Revised 2 Nov 2012 to add definition of the NSS functions for both 5 speed and auto transmissions

Cause of problem:
clutch not depressed (5 speed) or car not in neutral or park (auto) or A/C in On position when codes where dumped. Possible neutral safety switch or wiring problem. This code may prevent you from running the Key On Engine On tests.

External evidence from other sources claims that a code 67 can cause an idle surge condition. Do try to find and fix any issues with the switch and wiring if you get a code 67.

What the NSS (Neutral Safety Switch) does:
5 speed transmission: It has no connection with the starter, and the engine can be cranked without it being connected.
Auto transmission: It is the safety interlock that prevents the starter from cranking the engine with the transmission in gear.
What it does for both 5 speed and auto transmission cars:
The computer wants to make sure the A/C is off due to the added load on the engine for the engine running computer diagnostic tests. It also checks to see that the transmission is in Neutral (5 speed and auto transmission) and the clutch depressed (T5, T56, Tremec 3550 & TKO)). This prevents the diagnostics from being run when the car is driven. Key On Engine Running test mode takes the throttle control away from the driver for several tests. This could prove hazardous if the computer was jumpered into test mode and then driven.

The following is for 5 speed cars only.
The NSS code 67 can be bypassed for testing. You will need to temporarily ground computer pin 30 to the chassis. Computer pin 30 uses a Lt blue/yellow wire. Remove the passenger side kick panel and then remove the plastic cover from the computer wiring connector. Use a safety pin to probe the connector from the rear. Jumper the safety pin to the ground near the computer.
Be sure to remove the jumper BEFORE attempting to drive the car!!!

Code 85 CANP solenoid - The Carbon Canister solenoid is inoperative or missing.

Revised 11 –Jan_2015 to add warning about vacuum leaks due to deteriorated hose or missing caps on vacuum lines when the solenoid is removed.

Check vacuum lines for leaks and cracks. Check electrical wiring for loose connections, damaged wiring and insulation. Check solenoid valve operation by grounding the gray/yellow wire to the solenoid and blowing through it.
The computer provides the ground for the solenoid. The red wire to the solenoid is always energized any time the ignition switch is in the run position.

If you disconnected the carbon canister and failed to properly cap the vacuum line coming from under the upper intake manifold, you will have problems. You will also have problems if the remaining hose coming from under the upper intake manifold or caps for the vacuum line are sucking air.

Charcoal canister plumbing - one 3/8" tube from the bottom of the upper manifold to the rubber hose. Rubber hose connects to one side of the canister solenoid valve. Other side of the solenoid valve connects to one side of the canister. The other side of the canister connects to a rubber hose that connects to a line that goes all the way back to the gas tank. There is an electrical connector coming from the passenger side injector harness near #1 injector that plugs into the canister solenoid valve. It's purpose is to vent the gas tank. The solenoid valve opens at cruse to provide some extra fuel. The canister is normally mounted on the passenger side frame rail near the smog pump pulley.

It does not weigh but a pound or so and helps richen up the cruse mixture. It draws no HP & keeps the car from smelling like gasoline in a closed garage. So with all these good things and no bad ones, why not hook it up & use it?


The purge valve solenoid connector is a dangling wire that is near the ECT sensor and oil filler on the passenger side rocker cover. The actual solenoid valve is down next to the carbon canister. There is about 12"-16" of wire that runs parallel to the canister vent hose that comes off the bottom side of the upper intake manifold. That hose connects one port of the solenoid valve; the other port connects to the carbon canister.

The purge valve solenoid should be available at your local auto parts store.

Purge valve solenoid:

The carbon canister is normally mounted on the passenger side frame rail near the smog pump pulley.
Carbon Canister:

Code 95 Key On, Engine not Running - the following test path is for 86-90 model Mustangs.

The 95 code is because at one time or another, the fuel pump relay hiccupped and didn't provide power the pump when the computer told it to run. Sometimes this is a one time thing, other times it is a no run or runs poorly condition.

Using the diagram, check the red/black wire from the fuel pump relay: you should see 12 volts or so. If not, check the inertia switch: on a hatch it is on the driver’s side by the taillight. Look for a black rubber plug that pops out: if you don't find it, then loosen up the plastic trim. Check for voltage on both sides of the switch. If there is voltage on both sides, then check the Pink/black wire on the fuel pump relay: it is the power feed to the fuel pump. No voltage there, check the Orange/Lt blue wire, it is the power feed to the fuel pump relay & has a fuse link in it. If there is good voltage there & at the Pink/black wire, swap the relay.

Some Mass Air conversions neglect to run the extra fuel pump wire, and they always have a 95 code. See http://www.stangnet.com/tech/maf/massairconversion.html for more information on the Mass Air wiring conversion.

Code 66 or 157 MAF below minimum test voltage.

Revised 10-Feb-2014 to add 95-95 Mustang code 157 and 94-95 ECC diagram

Insufficient or no voltage from MAF. Dirty MAF element, bad MAF, bad MAF wiring, missing power to MAF. Check for missing +12 volts on this circuit. Check the two links for a wiring diagram to help you find the red wire for computer power relay switched +12 volts. Check for 12 volts between the red and black wires on the MAF heater (usually pins A & B). while the connector is plugged into the MAF. This may require the use of a couple of safety pins to probe the MAF connector from the back side of it.

Computer connector for 88-93 5.0 Mustangs

Diagrams courtesy of Tmoss and Stang&2Birds

ECC Diagram for 88-90 5.0 Mustangs

ECC Diagram for 91-93 5.0 Mustangs

94-95 Diagram for 94-95 5.0 Mustangs

There are three parts in a MAF: the heater, the sensor element and the amplifier. The heater heats the MAF sensor element causing the resistance to increase. The amplifier buffers the MAF output signal and has a resistor that is laser trimmed to provide an output range compatible with the computer's load tables. Changes in RPM causes the airflow to increase or decrease, changing the voltage output.. The increase of air across the MAF sensor element causes it to cool, allowing more voltage to pass and telling the computer to increase the fuel flow. A decrease in airflow causes the MAF sensor element to get warmer, decreasing the voltage and reducing the fuel flow.

The MAF element is secured by 2 screws & has 1 wiring connector. To clean the element, remove it from the MAF housing and spray it down with electronic parts cleaner or non-inflammable brake parts cleaner (same stuff in a bigger can and cheaper too).

89-90 Model cars: Measure the MAF output at pins C & D on the MAF connector (dark blue/orange and tan/light blue) or at pins 50 & 9 on the computer. Be sure to measure the sensor output by measuring across the pins and not between the pins and ground.

91-95 Model cars: Measure the MAF output at pins C & D on the MAF connector light blue/red and tan/light blue) or at pins 50 & 9 on the computer. Be sure to measure the sensor output by measuring across the pins and not between the pins and ground.


At idle = approximately .6 volt
20 MPH = approximately 1.10 volt
40 MPH = approximately 1.70 volt
60 MPH = approximately 2.10 volt

Check the resistance of the MAF signal wiring. Pin D on the MAF and pin 50 on the computer (dark blue/orange wire) should be less than 2 ohms. Pin C on the MAF and pin 9 on the computer (tan/light blue wire) should be less than 2 ohms.

There should be a minimum of 10K ohms between either pin C or D on the MAF wiring connector and pins A or B. Make your measurement with the MAF disconnected from the wiring harness.

Actually MAF pins C & D float with reference to ground. The signal output of the MAF is a differential amplifier setup. Pins C & D both carry the output signal, but one pin's output is inverted from the other. The difference in signal between C & D is what the computer's input circuit is looking for. The difference in the two outputs helps cancel out electrical noise generated by the ignition system and other components. Since the noise will be of the same polarity, wave shape and magnitude, the differential input of the computer electronically subtracts it from the signal. Then it passes the signal on to an Analog to Digital converter section inside the computer's CPU chip.


How to clear codes.
Clearing the codes by pressing a button on the scan tool or disconnecting the test jumper used to start the code dump does not erase the “learned settings”. All it does is erase the stored codes in memory.

You must clear the codes anytime you replace any sensor. The following tells you how and is different from the method above
Clear the computer codes by disconnecting the battery negative terminal and turn the headlights on. Turn the headlights off and reconnect the all sensors including the MAF and anything else you may have disconnected. Then reconnect the battery negative cable.. This clears all spurious codes may have been generated while troubleshooting problems. It also clears the adaptive settings that the computer "learns" as it operates. Clearing the codes does not fix the code problems, it just gives you a clean slate to start recording what the computer sees happening.

Run the car for at least 30 minutes of driving and dump the codes again to assure that you have fixed the code problem or sensor problem. This is necessary for the computer to relearn the adaptive settings that the computer uses for proper operation. The engine may run rough at first, but should smooth out as it runs for the 15-20 learning period.



Where to find wiring diagrams
See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

TFI module differences & pinout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif

Fuse box layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif

 

[grnhays]

Thanks, for another detailed answer!!

I'll make a list from your post and start digging. I have so many wire connections not connected to anything or they have a screw turned into the fitting.

I'll update after I gather some answers.

 

[Mustang5L5]

Code 95 is typical of speed density cars that were converted without the extra wire tapped into the fuel pump relay to monitor it.

Do you know if your 86 has the VSS and if those wires are connected? Not having those hooked up can sometimes result in stalling when coming to a stop

 

[grnhays]

Code 95 is typical of speed density cars that were converted without the extra wire tapped into the fuel pump relay to monitor it.

Do you know if your 86 has the VSS and if those wires are connected? Not having those hooked up can sometimes result in stalling when coming to a stop

It does have a vss. It's not hooked up though. I just replaced the Speedo and thought about hooking it up, but thought it must've been undone for a reason.