trouble, unable to drive.....

brown spit8 · Sep 15, 2006

i recently bought the jlt cold air kit from bamachips with the xcal tune. installation went fine, fired it up and tried to drive, the throttle was lazy and then it stalled. idled well for 10 seconds then dipped to below 750 and started shootin black smoke out the back, shut it off, then white smoke. doug sent me a new tune, same thing happened. returned it to stock with stock airbox, same thing. bottom line, cant drive my car - even now at stock. called doug he said he didnt know what to do. any help?

brown spit8 · Sep 15, 2006

by the way, jba long tubes, off road h, flowmasters if that helps any

Jenns01TA · Sep 15, 2006

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=611458

Black Smoke = Unburned Fuel - engine running rich.
White Smoke = Water/condensation
GreyBlue Smoke = Oil

Caution needs to be taken with these modifications fellas. We are playing with fire.

Shout back with any ?s

Rerun · Sep 15, 2006

You disconnect the battery for a few between each tune?

brown spit8 · Sep 15, 2006

doug said disconnecting the fuel pump, electric fan, and battery is not a concern for the mustang, just for f150s

Jenns01TA · Sep 15, 2006

Hmmmm.. I feel a need to contact Doug at Bama.

~J~

{Sent via Bamachips website to Bamachips -not info request - 9/15/06 12:45pm PST)
Good Afternoon. I am a moderator for the S197 2005+ forums on Stangnet. We are having an increase in threads relative to tuning issues with products causing AF deviations and the EEC/PCM/OBD-II from many tuners. I am asking Doug to come over to the site and help direct these technical discussions in a general manner (not customer specific) to assist me and the other moderators. Nick from DiabloSports and Sue from Eibach, as well as the CEO of Lysholm have joined us in the past and we welcome your input. This is for general EEC/PCM/OBD-II DC throw discussion and the following links may assist you in considering this request: http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=660658 - Jennifer S. White - Moderator - Stangnet.com S197 Forums

brown spit8 · Sep 15, 2006

*fuses

adamb258 · Sep 15, 2006

oil may have gotten on the mas form the new filter, try cleaning it

Jenns01TA · Sep 15, 2006

I would think that if there was any oil build up on the MAF/MAS thick enough to cause studder, it would also throw a DC and CEL.

Copy Captain....Fuse pull for retune versus physical disconnect.

brown - the long tubes on this engine are really playing hell with the AFs/deviation compensation between the PCM and the 02 voltage loops. This is why I am asking for Doug to come over. If he does not respond, I'll check with Mr. Tucker.

PDXStangDude · Sep 15, 2006

The common denominator is the tuner here. Could the tuner be failing to push the new/old tune correctly. Have you contacted SCT or Diablo?

brown spit8 · Sep 15, 2006

tried to but its the weekend.......

Jenns01TA · Sep 15, 2006

Brown. When you bought the JLT CAI with X-cal2 did you ask for a custom tune? Or did you use the one that came with the packaged product?

PDXStangDude · Sep 15, 2006

Jenns05Stang said:
Brown. When you bought the JLT CAI with X-cal2 did you ask for a custom tune? Or did you use the one that came with the packaged product?

I was thinking the same thing but he said he couldn't get his stock tune with stock intake to work either.

Jenns01TA · Sep 15, 2006

Please correct me if I am wrong, and I hope that I am, but the old school Off Road H/X pipes I recall back in the day had no Oxygen sensors integrated into the exhaust loop and PCM profile.

So, my deduction of brown's problem is that he has no heated 02 sensor signal going to the PCM. Because of this the PCM threw an "open loop" operation which is a call to the PCM for full rich fuel to compensate for there being no signal. Hence the black smoke blow after installation of Mr. Tuckers CAI. You now have an issue where you have increased Air, Rich Fuel and a detonation waiting to happen. At this point the PCM is trying to run mathmatical alogrithms to compensate for the deviations and trying to reflash to stock tune will probably not help much.

I have asked both Doug at Bamachips and Jay Tucker to pop in these threads if possible. I hope that their input will provide some advanced insight where this young lady is failing.

I only know the theoretical aspects of the engineering, not the actual practical application to assist.

Hang tight fellas. Let's see if we can get some help in here.

Jenn

terrysil · Sep 16, 2006

did you remove the 15 amp fuel pump and the large 40 amp fuse right next to it? if you don't the car runs like s__t

i know i made the mistake of changing tunes without removing fuses and car ran like s---

VegasGT · Sep 16, 2006

MAF in backwards?

Jenns01TA · Sep 16, 2006

terrysil said:
did you remove the 15 amp fuel pump and the large 40 amp fuse right next to it? if you don't the car runs like s__t

i know i made the mistake of changing tunes without removing fuses and car ran like s---

So if he removes the 15 amp fuel pump fuse @ bus slot #40 and and the 40 amp fuel pump relay as he uploads the tune, this should solve his problem?

AznStanger3v · Sep 16, 2006

Jenns05Stang said:
Please correct me if I am wrong, and I hope that I am, but the old school Off Road H/X pipes I recall back in the day had no Oxygen sensors integrated into the exhaust loop and PCM profile.

So, my deduction of brown's problem is that he has no heated 02 sensor signal going to the PCM. Because of this the PCM threw an "open loop" operation which is a call to the PCM for full rich fuel to compensate for there being no signal. Hence the black smoke blow after installation of Mr. Tuckers CAI. You now have an issue where you have increased Air, Rich Fuel and a detonation waiting to happen. At this point the PCM is trying to run mathmatical alogrithms to compensate for the deviations and trying to reflash to stock tune will probably not help much.

I have asked both Doug at Bamachips and Jay Tucker to pop in these threads if possible. I hope that their input will provide some advanced insight where this young lady is failing.

I only know the theoretical aspects of the engineering, not the actual practical application to assist.

Hang tight fellas. Let's see if we can get some help in here.

Jenn

1. What do you mean "no O2 sensors integrated in the exhaust loop"? It must be the wording. Ever since fuel injection w/ O2s started, its been in the loop. the first set is to check the AF, and the second set is the catalyst monitors.

2. Open loop is not full rich fuel. Its a set parameter of how much fuel there would be at WOT, or close to it. If full rich fuel was the case, it would flood the engine.

3. If the PCM theoretically went into open loop, there would be zero compensation. Compensation doesn't happen until closed loop.

I hope I'm on the same page with you. I understand (for the most part) what you are saying. Clarify with me if I didn't get your point through my thick skull.

Jenns01TA · Sep 17, 2006

17yrOldStanger said:
1. What do you mean "no O2 sensors integrated in the exhaust loop"? It must be the wording. Ever since fuel injection w/ O2s started, its been in the loop. the first set is to check the AF, and the second set is the catalyst monitors.

2. Open loop is not full rich fuel. Its a set parameter of how much fuel there would be at WOT, or close to it. If full rich fuel was the case, it would flood the engine.

3. If the PCM theoretically went into open loop, there would be zero compensation. Compensation doesn't happen until closed loop.

I hope I'm on the same page with you. I understand (for the most part) what you are saying. Clarify with me if I didn't get your point through my thick skull.

Good Morning Young Man,

I have spent a few years brushing up on my Modulated Electronic Engine Control theory specific to the Mustang. We have moved into a "brave new world" that is far from old school slop shop to advanced fundamental modulated electronic engine control programming.

Instead of trying to answer your questions as presented to me, I am goingto break a cardinal rule and hyperlink. A necessary evil considering the topic of discussion.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/o2sensor.htm

This so far is the BEST article I have found and read on 02 Sensor Diagnostics and the OBD-II/PCM, including heated 02s. In layman’s terms it explains a great deal.

I still have a huge amount to learn. I respectfully ask that you read it first and then get back to me. This is a great topic and we all need to spend a little more time educating ourselves. ME INCLUDED. I do not profess to know much. I have traded in the toolbox for a computer and research materials, I have gone from weekend shop tech to arm chair mechanic. Theory and practical application are totally different. Please help me educate myself and assist others.

~J~

brown spit8 · Sep 17, 2006

so what do i do about it

trouble, unable to drive.....

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