Turbo? Supercharger?

QuietOne · Jul 3, 2017

Try to give you some back story. My 1st Fox had a Procharger, 3rd Fox had No2 (Track Car), 4th Fox I bought built with twin 70mm turbos.

This time around I'm doing my damnedest to be smart, simple, keep the quality up, fun high, drivability great. I really just want a fun daily drivable car. I don't want to open my original 68k mile motor up past the lower intake. So the plan is after all the suspension work, brake upgrades, wheels/tires are done I was going to install a Vortech V3 with zero intentions of going over 8psi on my stock motor.

Cobra Heads and Intakes keep popping up but I resist because it's not the time for that in the build plan and again I don't want to take the upper half of my stock motor apart.

Enter On3 and CXracing. Every day I see these kits running around for almost $1k less than my planned Vortech v3. I see a lot of guys running the kits with good success. Which got my thinking "Should I just go single turbo with 6-8psi of boost?"

What are your thoughts? Single Turbo or Vortech V3?

:::::I know reading this some of you are asking why I don't want to build and motor if I am going to use boost. I want to run low boost so I don't have to build the motor at this stage. I don't want the car winning races I want it to drive anywhere I want it to go and be fun. I'd love to throw a cam, AFR heads, intake, and 12psi but the block won't survive it. Now if I don't mess with what is working, run low boost, drive the car on the weekends and to work every now and then. It will last me long enough to save up for a nice engine build and make me smile between then:::::

krazedstang · Jul 3, 2017

Honestly if you're looking for reliability above all else Vortech hands down, sure there are people who are having success with the On3 kits but there are just as many if not more horror stories about those kits. It's just hard to beat the tried and true of Vortech, I know once I decide to add boost to my set up (currently in the middle of a engine swap, 92 block with about 55k on it, TF Street intake, TF 170 heads and TF stage 1 cam with 1.6 Ford Racing roller rockers) I'll be getting a Vortech.

TOOLOW91 · Jul 3, 2017

Vortech FTW. I've had units as old as a trims from 1994 on my car , my old s trim was like serial number 36 ever produced . You just can't beat the reliability . And the new self contained units for the street stuff make installation a breeze .

QuietOne · Jul 3, 2017

Thank you fellas

QuietOne · Jul 3, 2017

TOOLOW91 said:
Vortech FTW. I've had units as old as a trims from 1994 on my car , my old s trim was like serial number 36 ever produced . You just can't beat the reliability . And the new self contained units for the street stuff make installation a breeze .

@TOOLOW91 are you running a c4 or AOD in your coupe?

90sickfox · Jul 3, 2017

There's a lot of other stuff needed to make the on3 kit work....trust me I know.

Supercharger would be simpler...a lot easier to put on, which equates to less time. Time is money.

QuietOne · Jul 3, 2017

@FastDriver Thank you, when are we gonna get an update on that car of yours?!?!?!

TOOLOW91 · Jul 3, 2017

QuietOne said:
@TOOLOW91 are you running a c4 or AOD in your coupe?

I run a tranzilla prepped tko600. One day I'd love to put a Freddy brown aod in the car

A5literMan · Jul 3, 2017

Vortech...hands down the better choice for a fun street car/occasional track usage.

CarMichael Angelo · Jul 4, 2017

I guess it all depends on what your capabilities are mechanically. A turbo is quiet compared to the noise level you have to tolerate from a SC, and a good turbo, gate, and BOV are requisite if you choose to go that path. But if you can fabricate/tweak the stuff that's out there that makes up the rest of the system, then you'll be money ahead building the system yourself, and going turbo..
(Something you can't do w/ a Centri-SC)
I had to build everything in my application including the hot and cold sides, but that isn't necessary in your case. The headers, and related hotside, the IC tubing and intercooler are all readily available in kit form, and not any more or less "unreliable" than the stuff required to provide space for a SC. Lets' not confuse "fitment issues" w/ reliability.

I'll bet if I add it all up,..(here wait a minute,..I'll do that now,)..........X + Y, (carry the 1,...nought, nought) add this, don't forget that,...Oh yeah, + Z = Less than 2200.00 for the entire 66 mm Borg warner/Turbo smart system w/ a Chinee A2W intercooler from frozen boost, and 60 mm Chinee BOV.

People tout a SC as being more reliable than a turbo system and after it's all installed, I just gotta wonder how is that so? The word "unreliable" only enters into the conversation when these other words are added..."I bought this Chinese system"
So get the important stuff from a reputable vendor and the ancillary hotside/coldside from the Crouching Tiger, and you'll have more money in your pocket for the gas that the car will start guzzling.

CarMichael Angelo · Jul 4, 2017

And here's another one I just thought of that NOBODY ever talks about..

What's the difference between 6-8 p.s.i. from a belt driven SC, vs the same 6-8 p.s.i. from a turbo?
In other words,.....

How much power is lost just turn that noisy assed thing?

QuietOne · Jul 4, 2017

@madmike1157 I 100% see your point and IMO turbos have been the answer for many years. If I was going to pull all the drive train and install all the awesome things I would, without a 2nd thought, fab up my own turbo kit. I'm 6-10 years and two relocations away from that point but it's coming.

@FastDriver Good to hear! I binged on your thread and love your car.

QuietOne · Jul 4, 2017

FastDriver said:
Thank you; it's been a real pain in the ass, but it's also something special to me. It still has a lot of bugs to work out, but it's awesome to be able to drive it while I work through them.

Mike is right that turbo kits can be very reliable when you use good parts. My position is only that there are more moving parts, and it's a more complex system. From an engineering perspective, that's almost always going to make it less reliable. Plus, when you run into issues, they'll be more challenging to diagnose. Now, look, I've had 2 turbo combinations now. So, I obviously believe the merits outweigh the challenges, but I just want guys to understand and accept the extra costs in money and time, and the extra challenges they'll deal with, rather than watch them start a project, get in over their head, and give up, instead of taking the simpler, less expensive path of supercharging.

There's nothing more intoxicating than the feeling when a turbo spools up. I ****in' love the races where you smash the gas, the car in the other lane pulls up a car or two before the hairdryer spins up, the blood rushes to the back of your head, and as they stick their hand out to wave a sarcastic "bye, bye" to you, you blow their F-in doors off the hinges, lol

One of my favorite comparisons was an article by Richard Holdener in MM&FF. He ran 14psi through a roots, centrifugal, twin-screw, and twin turbo system. The Eaton roots blower made 583 hp at 14.2psi, the Kenne-bell twin-screw made 704 hp at 14.5psi, the vortech centrifugal made 725hp at 14.0 psi albeit down significantly on the low-end power production, and the HP Twin-turbo kit made 830 hp!!! (13.6 psi)

Every pound of boost is worth around 25 rwhp. So, is the juice worth the squeeze? To me, hell yes! But, it isn't for the faint of heart. A much higher percentage of car guys sell off their half-assed unfinished turbo hack jobs than any other sort of build, because of all of the costs and complications.

Chris

I sincerely get you. I love nothing more than a turbo car taking flight. I've owned and ridden in but never built a turbo car for myself. I'm currently at Ft. Benning and don't have a good tuner close to me. Which is my #1 issue with going "Lightweight turbo" now.

a91what · Jul 4, 2017

Lol. Supercharger and "easy"

Bullitt347 · Jul 4, 2017

Most turbo kits come with jack stands, those that don't, should.

a91what · Jul 4, 2017

Ahh 10-4 I take things that were never meant to go on a 5.0 and find a way to bolt em up.

Currently an m112

Noobz347 · Jul 5, 2017

a91what said:
Ahh 10-4 I take things that were never meant to go on a 5.0 and glue them together with mass quantities of TIG wire.

Currently an m112

fixt

a91what · Jul 5, 2017

FastDriver said:
lol, that's awesome! I'm pretty sure I've seen you post about it. I'm a fan of your work!

Thanks! I try to keep to a strict budget when I do these, I'm really happy with the way the current project is going. It's hard when I only have some basic tools and a cheap mig.

65ShelbyClone · Jul 10, 2017

madmike1157 said:
And here's another one I just thought of that NOBODY ever talks about..

What's the difference between 6-8 p.s.i. from a belt driven SC, vs the same 6-8 p.s.i. from a turbo?
In other words,.....

How much power is lost just turn that noisy assed thing?

From what I can gather, about 8-10% of the engine's flywheel power.

Turbos need about the same amount of power as a centrifugal blower to compress the same mass of air by the same amount, but at least they recover some of it (not all of it) from waste energy in the exhaust. They're also not sucking their power through a gear box.

Turbo? Supercharger?

QuietOne

Advanced Member

krazedstang

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

QuietOne

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QuietOne

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90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

QuietOne

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TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

QuietOne

Advanced Member

QuietOne

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a91what

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Bullitt347

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

a91what

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Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

a91what

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65ShelbyClone

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Turbo? Supercharger?

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Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

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At least it is lumpy...

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

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