Engine Unique Intake Setup N/A (363 Stroker)

DonMaximo · Mar 25, 2013

Gents,

I'm building a 363" off a new Man-o-war aluminum SBF block for a naturally aspirated, EFI, setup. All SCAT 4340 internals zero balanced, Aluminum flywheel. With my Cam selection, my sweet spot is expected to be in the 6000-6500 range.
Application: 50% Road Race, 50% hopper.
In short, I'm going to be moving a lot more air, but I'm still naturally aspirated.

My initial choice, which is a good one, is the Edelbrock Victor 5.0 EFI setup.

I was considering however, the Edelbrock Lower EFI Victor intake (#29285) whose lower intake already has injector bungs and it looks more like a carbureted intake than what was offered through 1995.

What I'm curious about, but cannot find, is 'accurate' information on using an Edelbrock (EFI) #29285 intake, with a Spider plenum.

I have seen these setups on sbf motors with power-adders, but it's rare to see them with N/A. Someone commented on a website, that these single plane intakes don't work well with the EEC-IV of my 1992 A9L. But this remark does not sit well with me, particularly since my wifes' 4.6 GT stock setup uses a lower intake with plenum on top.

What shortcomings or problems do you see with this consideration ?

thoughts ?

Thank you,

84Ttop · Mar 25, 2013

Personally for me I like the lower intake manifold choice. I disagree with the plenum however. I would much rather see a 4150 style throttle body on a normally aspirated car. Air flow inside the plenum will be far more equal between the runners with a 4150 type throttle body not to mention I believe they just flow more air.

More importantly why are you choosing an aluminum block? A cast iron block will make more horse power all day long and unless you need the weight savings then I see no need.

Which heads will you be running and what kind of flow numbers?

How much horse power do you expect to see with your combo?

Any inside line on the secret squirrel cam?

7991LXnSHO · Mar 26, 2013

Why would a cast iron block make more power? If there are cylinder liners and it is thick enough to hold up, I am not seeing a problem except for cost.

90lxcoupe · Mar 26, 2013

I am doing an 8.2 deck super victor, you can get them with injector bungs already cast in, and ready for edelbrock fuel rails. The intake is 399, and the rails are about 70 or 80 bucks i think. I am confident this intake will outperform the TFS box-r intake just about everywhere on my 7000rpm 345'' SBF.

Here are some of the challenges you will run into with this intake... There is no PCV port, not a problem for me, because i run a -12an line from the valve cover to a catch can. There is no good way to make the coolant tube work IMO. Easy fix, i put the coolant temp sensor in the water neck(had the boss in it tapped to 3/8'' NPT), then ran a 5/8'' straight fitting in the intake, to a cut water pump to intake elbow, then used an adapter fitting to a straight tube, ran that to the heater core tube, and connected it there with another adapter. On the return side, i did another straight hose between the heater core hose, and the WP hose. It sounds complicated, but all this stuff i bought can be found in the radiator hose repair section at autozone. Check out the pic below.

The 4150 throttle body makes a little more work, but if you have a standalone ECU, its the way to go VS an 90mm and elbow.

DonMaximo · Mar 26, 2013

84Ttop said:
Personally for me I like the lower intake manifold choice. I disagree with the plenum however. I would much rather see a 4150 style throttle body on a normally aspirated car. Air flow inside the plenum will be far more equal between the runners with a 4150 type throttle body not to mention I believe they just flow more air.

More importantly why are you choosing an aluminum block? A cast iron block will make more horse power all day long and unless you need the weight savings then I see no need.

Which heads will you be running and what kind of flow numbers?

How much horse power do you expect to see with your combo?

Any inside line on the secret squirrel cam?

For Road Racing --- this block alone is 110 lbs less than it's iron brethren. With a K-member/Control-arm install, I'm removing "150lbs" from the front-end.

To suggest that an aluminum block cannot produce the same HP as a comparable iron block is just advertising a lack of knowledge I'm afraid. In fact, an aluminum block with aluminum heads are far more compatible combination than iron block/aluminum heads.
Iron and Aluminum do not expand and contract at same rate.

90lxcoupe · Mar 26, 2013

DonMaximo said:
To suggest that an aluminum block cannot produce the same HP as a comparable iron block is just advertising a lack of knowledge I'm afraid. In fact, an aluminum block with aluminum heads are far more compatible combination than iron block/aluminum heads.
Iron and Aluminum do not expand and contract at same rate.

Not to start an argument, but it is very possible that an iron block will make more power than an aluminum block due to the ability of the iron block to keep the rings sealed. On a naturally aspirated motor, it may not be much, but on a boosted motor, you might see a big difference.

DonMaximo · Mar 26, 2013

90lxcoupe said:
Not to start an argument, but it is very possible that an iron block will make more power than an aluminum block due to the ability of the iron block to keep the rings sealed. On a naturally aspirated motor, it may not be much, but on a boosted motor, you might see a big difference.

No argument necessary brother, here's a couple facts for the discussion

#1 ) Ford Cobras, Shelby/Shelby 500's, and Coyote engines are all aluminum blocks !
All high-end GM Stuff (Camaro's, Vette's, Caddies) are all using aluminum blocks.

#2) Aluminum blocks typically use ductile iron sleeves which is stronger than the cast iron sleeves in your conventional iron block.

#3) The Shelby GT500's come off the floor with a Supercharger and rated around 660HP in STOCK form.
Despite this difficult to plant power, guys are still swapping out for a Kenne Bell to get into the 900+HP range.

#4) There is an article, every month, in the Mustang rags about some guys who configured a
power-adder to his Coyote powered GT.

I think it's safe to assume that aluminum blocks, if provided with quality equipment, are up to the task of handling power-adders.

The deal I'm building now is a 8.2" Man-o-War which can be bored to 4.125" , is already clearanced for a 3.4" stroke (Total=363"), and has 5 billet steel main caps with splayed ARP2000 fasteners. My SCAT 4340 assembly is zero balanced and I'll be using an aluminum flywheel as a final touch since I'll be road racing it.
If I were to drag this car, I would have opted for a steel flywheel, to build that energy up at the line for the violent launch.

-D

84Ttop · Mar 26, 2013

I'm pretty engulfed in the racing scene myself and have crewed with outlaw 10.5, outlaw drag radial and x275 teams. You can not compare a production gt500 motor with a factory alum block to any cast iron block simply because the like does not exist in cast iron. To compare a 8.2deck cast to aluminum you certainly will make more hp in the cast block. Expansion of the two dissimilar metals is baloney, that's why we have mls gaskets and good hardware. 30 psi of boost for me with no sealing/expansion problems. The aluminum motors with the exemption given to billet blocks, move around, and move a lot. The cylinders move and there is more end play in the crank and cam under load. The advantage however is sliding out one sleeve for a repair and having the ability to weld the block should a rod or something seek day light..
I'm not saying that they don't hold up to power adders but at the level we are talking about they are certainly not cost effective.

Real world comparison here.. My buddies 434 Chevy in a cast iron man o war block made more hp, (almost 50) than with his 434 Chevy in an aluminum dart block. He needed the flexibility for the rebuilds more than anything so it was worth the trade off..

On a final note, and this is me being a wise ass. My buddies outlaw 10.5 Camaro a few years ago broke the mains out of his aluminum block a few times before he switched to a billet block (10,000$ unmachined) 702" big block with a psi pro mod screw blower about 3,300 hp and that's the truth

84Ttop · Mar 26, 2013

One other note,

John Mihovets of accufab runs a cast iron 4.6 block in his promod car and has been 6.14 @ 236 in the 1/4 mile.

Maybe that's enough said? Lol

gearheadboy · Mar 26, 2013

84Ttop said:
I'm pretty engulfed in the racing scene myself and have crewed with outlaw 10.5, outlaw drag radial and x275 teams. You can not compare a production gt500 motor with a factory alum block to any cast iron block simply because the like does not exist in cast iron. To compare a 8.2deck cast to aluminum you certainly will make more hp in the cast block. Expansion of the two dissimilar metals is baloney, that's why we have mls gaskets and good hardware. 30 psi of boost for me with no sealing/expansion problems. The aluminum motors with the exemption given to billet blocks, move around, and move a lot. The cylinders move and there is more end play in the crank and cam under load. The advantage however is sliding out one sleeve for a repair and having the ability to weld the block should a rod or something seek day light..
I'm not saying that they don't hold up to power adders but at the level we are talking about they are certainly not cost effective.

Real world comparison here.. My buddies 434 Chevy in a cast iron man o war block made more hp, (almost 50) than with his 434 Chevy in an aluminum dart block. He needed the flexibility for the rebuilds more than anything so it was worth the trade off..

On a final note, and this is me being a wise ass. My buddies outlaw 10.5 Camaro a few years ago broke the mains out of his aluminum block a few times before he switched to a billet block (10,000$ unmachined) 702" big block with a psi pro mod screw blower about 3,300 hp and that's the truth

Just post the dyno video again...then maybe they'll understand. I know I do.

88LX5.Oh · Mar 26, 2013

Cast iron 4.6 blocks can handle so much abuse. All those Termi guys rolling around with 800 wheel HP makes me want a Cobra lol

Engine Unique Intake Setup N/A (363 Stroker)

DonMaximo

Member

84Ttop

They make new pistons every day, so why worry?

7991LXnSHO

wanna catch the space herp

90lxcoupe

DonMaximo

Member

90lxcoupe

DonMaximo

Member

84Ttop

They make new pistons every day, so why worry?

84Ttop

They make new pistons every day, so why worry?

gearheadboy

88LX5.Oh

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Engine Unique Intake Setup N/A (363 Stroker)

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