Very noobish question on superchargers

Sonic04GT

Sonic04GT

Member
Nov 1, 2009
844
1
19
West Palm Beach, FL
#1
Ok, so first of all, I really know nothing about blowers. Not even sure where to start with this thread haha but basically, what can I do on a motor with stock internals? i.e. the 2004 GT in my sig.

What kits are available, how difficult are they to install, and how much boost can i safely run without severely limiting the life span of my motor? What other parts are absolutely necessary? Injectors I assume also?

For the longest time I've been telling myself I will wait to build a forged bottom end and then go the blower route from there, which would mean staying NA probably for a couple years or more. I have owned 2 Mustangs now, bought a '95 GT about 7 years ago and sold it a couple years ago for the '04 I have now. I have always wanted to say I had a supercharged Mustang, especially as common as it is nowadays. Mods are in my sig, and cams were going to be the next route. Should I do those first, or start looking into some low boost kits for a stock motor?

As you can tell, I'm not very mechanically inclined but know enough to get by on.

Please steer me in the right direction. Car has 55,000 miles on it.
 

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#2
What are your HP goals? Would you be happy with 400 HP, 500 HP, 600 HP? IMO setting a HP goal is vital to the process.

Check out the KB web site. Per KB, the stock bottom end can support 400 HP. Is that enough?

There's some great information on the KB site. It's not just about their SC. Frankly there is more than one way to make HP. But the site is a good source of credible information.
 
#3
I was thinking Kenne Bell as well. :nice: Call them up and tell them two things:

What motor setup you have now (stock), and where you want to be when it's all over (forged bottom end etc.)

KBs are VERY scalable with just minor changes like throttle bodies, pullies, inlet manifolds etc. So buy the KB with the largest compressor you think you will need LATER and have it shipped with the discharge outlet, plumbing, and pullies that you need now.

Good Luck! :)
 
#4
Sonic04GT said:
Ok, so first of all, I really know nothing about blowers. Not even sure where to start with this thread haha but basically, what can I do on a motor with stock internals? i.e. the 2004 GT in my sig.
Click to expand...

You can get roughly 400 rear wheel HP (which is ~460 crankshaft HP) from a stock PI bottom end with comparative safety. Some say 450rwHP is the safe upper limit but all one needs to do is take a look at a stock 2V piston and rod:

46perf16.gif


46perf12.gif


to know that such power levels are just asking for it.

What kits are available, how difficult are they to install, and how much boost can i safely run without severely limiting the life span of my motor? What other parts are absolutely necessary? Injectors I assume also?
Click to expand...

Look at Kenne Bell, Tork Tech, Vortech and Paxton to start. To make that sort of power you're going to be in the 10-psi range.

In my case, I had a BAP (boost a pump) wired into the harness for the factory pump to take care of fuel. The OE GT pump is sufficient with a BAP for those sorts of power levels. You could also forgo the BAP and put in alternate pumps (e.g. SVT Focus). Yes, you'll need injectors. Mine's got 37# Bosch parts though 42# would work too. You'll need to size the injectors appropriate to your power level.

I've got the stock MAF on the car right now though I think it's saturating (or close to it.) Consider upgrading to a 90mm Lightning part.

You'll need a tune as well to bring it all together and to get the timing right. My install is running a "mail order" tune from KB and it's fine. No hints of detonation, just passed an emissions sniffer test with flying colors (though I am on the stock H-pipe which helps in that regard immensely...)

Should I do those first, or start looking into some low boost kits for a stock motor?
Click to expand...

Don't buy anything until you know your path. My kit's an intercooled 1.7 at 9psi and, though it's small, it's fine because unless the motor lets go, I'm pretty much done modding it. 400rwHP is plenty for me. I've got a 14-psi pulley for it but I'll never install it. If you really want 600rwHP or more you're not going to want to buy a "low boost" setup now.

Keep in mind that a 600rwHP car is a completely different animal than one with 400. Even with 400, on a cool day I can feel the back getting loose as I accelerate onto a highway (stock 245 tires) in 3rd gear. With another 200HP on tap, I'd just be spinning everywhere. You're going to want to look into everything from subframe connectors to bigger tires, to suspension work, to more fuel mods (possibly even lines from the tank) and even brakes. (I'm thinking of some Bullitt front brakes in the future since the blower and manifold has added a bunch of weight -- like 75 pounds -- to the front of the car and the stock brakes feel overwhelmed at times...)
 
#8
Sonic04GT said:
I can't edit from my phone, but would an intercooler really be necessary on a 400hp application?
Click to expand...

If you're boosting more than 6-psi, yes. When you compress air it gets hot and hot intake air is more likely to promote detonation. Look at the picture of the stock, cast hypereutectic 2V piston earlier in this thread and notice how very thin the top of the piston is above the top ring. This lack of material and the brittle nature of hypereutectic pistons makes them very susceptible to damage from detonation.

This damage usually takes the form of a part of that area above the top ring actually snapping off.

Intercooling provides a level of security against this occuring by keeping IATs reasonable.

If you can't swing the intercooled kit, go with the 6-psi non-intercooled setup.
 
#9
trinity_gt said:
If you're boosting more than 6-psi, yes. When you compress air it gets hot and hot intake air is more likely to promote detonation. Look at the picture of the stock, cast hypereutectic 2V piston earlier in this thread and notice how very thin the top of the piston is above the top ring. This lack of material and the brittle nature of hypereutectic pistons makes them very susceptible to damage from detonation.

This damage usually takes the form of a part of that area above the top ring actually snapping off.

Intercooling provides a level of security against this occuring by keeping IATs reasonable.

If you can't swing the intercooled kit, go with the 6-psi non-intercooled setup.
Click to expand...
All of this makes me paranoid haha Not sure if I want to drop 3-4 grab if it's only going to put me in the 350ish range. Unless I do cams first, hopefully bringing me to about 300rwhp as I have seem on some near stock 2V's and then maybe look into the 6psi kit from there. I need to look into Vortech as well.

Lot of useful information in here, thanks alot guys.
 
#13
Yes... GET THE INTERCOOLER! The object from my perspective is that you pay the money ONE TIME and get the blower kit that will give the most expandability for later on when you get around to beefing up your motor. That way, the cost for increasing blower output is kept to a minimum and you're not having to buy a whole new kit.

Crack the spider webs off the check-book now and save yourself some money in the long run. KBs are not cheap so help yourself out.
 
#14
my buddy ran a KB kit on a stock bottom end for 70K making 443/467 and beat the crap out of it daily. he finally blew it up a year ago. this was with HEAVY abuse!

a KB is the best s/c for street driving. i liked his 450 hp car better than my car making 612 on the street tune. that instant boost is the best!!!!!!
 
#15
If you want to do it right, definitely get an intercooler. As an owner of a non-intercooled blower, I can tell you that it sucks knowing that you are pretty much stuck in the low 300s unless you have some more motor work or another power adder.

Would you rather have a centrifugal blower, which adds boost/power as the rpm climb? Or would you rather have a positive displacement blower, which makes maximum boost right off idle?

Are you on a budget? If you are, know that Kenne Bell is going to be the most expensive option of superchargers. If you don't mind shopping around for used parts, the kit from Tork Tech that allows you to use the Eaton from a Lightning or Cobra makes a nice choice, as it can be done relatively cheaply if you are patient (<$3500). And it is a roots style, which is a lot more fun IMO, that will make more power than your motor will hold.
 
#16
I have heard nothing but good about Kenne Bell since I got into Mustangs so I think that's the route I would take when the time does come. I have the money for a KB kit, it's just a matter of convincing myself to do it, especially when I'm considering going half on twin waverunners with my father, and I'm currently unemployed as stated above.

Are the Procharger kits any good? Always loved the sound of those things haha
 
#18
This thread has me pondering an 03-04 cobra blower on my car. Interesting stuff. If I had the cash to drop I would definately get the 9psi KB with the intercooler. Procharger kits were my 2nd choice though so you would be in good hands with that one too. I just think that the KB sitting on top of the engine looks the best rather than something sitting to the left or right in front of the engine. Just my opinion which doesn't matter much to anyone but me :D
 
#19
I have the Tork Tech kit, seeing about 10psi.....making 417rwhp.....Stock bottom end, had it over a year and no problems so far. If your going to be spending money on a kit, don't go cheap.....meaning get an intercooled kit. You won't regret it.

Tork Tech, KB are great kits, both are roots style, meaning instant boost, really fun to drive on the streets.
Vortech, Paxton are centri type blowers which are more street friendly(not as fun though), they do get into boost until higher rpms.

Before you buy, do lots and lots of research for what YOU want. Thats you first goal, decide what you want out of your car and how much power you want. then go from there.
 
#20
ahall2004 said:
This thread has me pondering an 03-04 cobra blower on my car. Interesting stuff. If I had the cash to drop I would definately get the 9psi KB with the intercooler. Procharger kits were my 2nd choice though so you would be in good hands with that one too. I just think that the KB sitting on top of the engine looks the best rather than something sitting to the left or right in front of the engine. Just my opinion which doesn't matter much to anyone but me :D
Click to expand...

Haha I was kind of thinking the same thing. As far as looks go, KB is def the best :D As ricerish as it may sound, as performance-oriented as I try to be, I've never had an engine bay worth looking at so I'm concerned about looks lol

Don't lie I'm sure you guys think you're all badasses driving down the road with A-pillar gauges lit up at night ;)
 
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