VT cam guys(and girls) come on in!!!

rugster · Jun 6, 2007

I am installing my stage 1 cams and I have the timing set perfectly, I am absolutey positive. But the motor still does not spin freely and I am getting Piston to Valve contact. What could be the culprit? And has anyone else ever had this problem? Do I have to advance the chain 1 tooth or something? I'm so frustrated!

mineralgraygt · Jun 6, 2007

are you sure you getting pistion valve. do you still have the sparkplugs in when turning the motor over? because if so it can be a bitch to turn try taking the plugs out and turning it over.

rugster · Jun 6, 2007

spark plugs were all out...

Dragstr05 · Jun 6, 2007

The tolerence for the cams was just way too sloppy from production. This is why it seems some GT's just run better than others and why some get called a "freak". It is possible that the higher lift cams, set in the same position your stock cams were (whether they be at the advance or retard limit) may just be enough to create PTV contact, if thats infact the case.

If your positive its PTV contact and that its a direct result from the cams, your ONLY option is to degree them in. This would ensure that your cams are straight up dead on. If your still having problems with PTV contact, call VT.

mineralgraygt · Jun 6, 2007

hmm did ya put the right cams in the right head? also when ya timed it i belive p/s cam gear is at 11 and d/s is at 12 and the crank is at 6

rugster · Jun 6, 2007

cams are in the correct head, the passenger side timing mark is at 11 and the driver side timing mark is at 12...this makes no sense...

Dragstr05 · Jun 6, 2007

rugster said:
cams are in the correct head, the passenger side timing mark is at 11 and the driver side timing mark is at 12...this makes no sense...

It does make sense. If you are having PTV contact, your cams are probably off. Set #1 cylinder to TDC on the compression stroke. If both your crank and cam sprocket arent aligned, your off. But honestly, it HAS to be your cams or your cam timing is off. There just isnt anything else. The variable is the cams, so the problem lies with the cams. If you degree the cams out and you're still having problems, then you need to contact VT.

rugster · Jun 6, 2007

how much are degree-able cam gears and where can I get them?

Dragstr05 · Jun 6, 2007

rugster said:
how much are degree-able cam gears and where can I get them?

You dont actually get cam gears that you use to degree the cams it. You'll have a set of large dials/wheels that get attatched on your cams, and maybe your crank but I dont remember. There should be plenty of write-up proceedures out there on how to do this, but doing so may just show you how sloppy the timing is from the factory. Search around a couple forums, even google if you have to and I'm sure you can find what you need to know.

hotmustang331 · Jun 6, 2007

Only ONE other person had PTV with his VT stg one cams....and when he tore the motor down he found out that he accedentally skipped one tooth on the chain. That advances everything roughly 17*s from what I have been told.

If everything else is correct in almost 100% postitive thats what has happened. In either case you must tear the front of your engine down now and check your timing. But good job on spinning the engine over by hand first like yous supposed to ...no harm done and now you can fix the problem. Make sure to let us know what it turns out to be. Fords tollerence limits to full advance on cam gears, and everything else still shouldnt have PTV with VT stg1s.

Oh and since your tearing everythng down anyways, go ahaead and degree the cams reguardless. And you will need fidanza adjustable cam gears, or what I would do is call VT engines and order thier adjustable cams gears. And they should also be able to hook you up with a degreeing kit.

let us know how everything works out.

EDIT: I see you have a 2000PI engine. Those have pressed on gears. So I assume you bought bolton gears....which would most likely mean you tore the engines front cover off too right? So either the cams were machined wrong or your gears are out of fords tollerance range.

rugster · Jun 6, 2007

that would be correct, the entire front cover is off right now and every mark is at 6oclock on the crank and the marks on the cam gears match up perfectly to my marks...still wouldnt spin freely...thats why i said i was 100% sure that my timing is right. and yes i ordered cam gears from them but I am using the ones off my 98GT motor and probably selling the new ones I bought....

hotmustang331 · Jun 6, 2007

I wonder if the 98GT cam gears had differnt tollerences or maybe even different timing marks than the 99-04s? Being orginally NPI...possable and another factor thats usually not present.

SilverBullet00 · Jun 6, 2007

I have heard that VT measures and checks the cams 3 times before they arrive at your doorstep. Check to make sure the car is in NEUTRAL- I screwed up once and left it in 1rst, 5 hours later I realized the problem. If its not in neutral, I would take the cams, followers, and lash adjusters out along with the chains, tensioners, and guides and reinstall everything. Keep everything in the same spot, dont mix and match.

Start by installing the cams. Put the cam in, bolt down the caps in order in the correct orientation they came off in. once the caps are torqued down to 89inch pounds, make sure the cam spins free and doesnt bind. If it binds, you have a cam cap backwards or in wrong order. Next compress the lash adjusters in a vise and pop them into place. Now install the timing chains, guides, and tensioners making sure they are aligned correctly. when all these are installed make sure the car is in neutral with the spark plugs out and rotate the motor. It should rotate smoothly- now start installing the followers. Start with the lobe thats at its base cycle, and pry the follower into place using a screw driver. Then keep rotating the motor untill you can install another follower into place. Keep going like this untilll everything is installed. At any point while doing this the motor locks up, id say you would have some serious degreeing work ahead of you.

TGJ · Jun 6, 2007

Don't use Fidanza cam gears. They have come apart, causing PTV. You are better off grinding away at the keyway on the Ford ones. There is a good set of Cam gears if you want them, but I don't have the info on them currently, http://www.modularperformance.com sells them.

Actually the tolerances were the same between the NPI and PI cam gears, the only difference is how they were hardened.

SilverBullet00 · Jun 6, 2007

TGJ said:
Don't use Fidanza cam gears. They have come apart, causing PTV. You are better off grinding away at the keyway on the Ford ones. There is a good set of Cam gears if you want them, but I don't have the info on them currently, http://www.modularperformance.com sells them.

Actually the tolerances were the same between the NPI and PI cam gears, the only difference is how they were hardened.

Good point. I had my fidanza gears for one week, then I took them off and sold them on ebay. They didnt seem sturdy enough to trust my whole motor to.

rugster · Jun 7, 2007

VT certainly does not measure 3 times considering that the cams are actually manufactured and shipped from "Bullet Racing Cams"...

SilverBullet00 · Jun 7, 2007

rugster said:
VT certainly does not measure 3 times considering that the cams are actually manufactured and shipped from "Bullet Racing Cams"...

Both VT and Bullet Racing Cams are VERY reputable companies- you better believe they have quality control measures. There is a very slim chance that these cams aren't ground right and the cam card should verify this. You need to reinstall everything and degree them. If you still have this issue when they are installed to a 110.5 intake centerline (verify this with the cam card) you need to call VT for advice.

By the way, did you make sure the tranny is in neutral??

rugster · Jun 7, 2007

yes the transmission was in neutral...im just annoyed because I bought the stage 1's thinking they wouldnt have to be degreed and I dont know how to do that nor do I have a degree kit. I put the car back together this morning and its running fine with the normal cams in it...I think im gonna take a break for a while...on another not, I still have not been able to get ahold of the VT cam company nor have they returned my voicemail/email...its been almost a month...

hotmustang331 · Jun 7, 2007

Well I really dont know what to say. Something is obviously out of spec....if everything was in spec your car would be "loaping" around right now.
So now to figure out if its Ford or VT. If its Ford, I would be a bit conserned that if those cams hit...how close are the stockers? And with high RPM and rod stretch I wonder how close things are coming to craching apart.
And you said you are sure you put the cams in the correct sides....how are you 100% sure that they are? I know mine didnt have indication as to which were left or right. We just took them and layed them over the top of the stock cams while they were still bolted in and matched up the loabs to the correct side. I have heard of some people VT cams saying L or R on them...mine didnt.

SilverBullet00 · Jun 7, 2007

This is just crazy... I was just thinking about placing an order for a set of VT stage 1 cams, too.... I might wait to see how this plays out

VT cam guys(and girls) come on in!!!

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