Build Thread Want To Blow 5 Years And $50k On A Foxbody? Step By Step Instructions Inside!

[RacEoHolic330]

Well, my car was chosen to be on display in the Towne Center area during a local cars and coffee event. That area is basically a large stamped concrete patio area typically filled with tables and chairs that they clear out to feature cars every month. I'm super excited to be featured in that exclusive area. There is just one issue. The event is this Sunday. That's enough to light a fire under my ass so I can get this thing done! Needless to say, I'll be very busy on Saturday.

 

[Detroiit]

Well, my car was chosen to be on display in the Towne Center area during a local cars and coffee event. That area is basically a large stamped concrete patio area typically filled with tables and chairs that they clear out to feature cars every month. I'm super excited to be featured in that exclusive area. There is just one issue. The event is this Sunday. That's enough to light a fire under my ass so I can get this thing done! Needless to say, I'll be very busy on Saturday.

You can do it!

 

[TOOLOW91]

If any car is worthy yours is the one


Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

 

[hoopty5.0]

 

[smkshw]

been reading this thread quietly in the background.....wow,what a beast is all i need to say!

 

[RacEoHolic330]

Thanks guys. I'm gonna try like hell to get everything in order for Sunday.

 

[A5literMan]

Very cool and congrats!!

 

[89oem]

Awesome honor! Dont rush the reassembly

 

[Noobz347]

Is it Sunday yet? If it doesn't start, you can use that team of cheerleaders from one of the other threads to pull it.

They'll look good in harnesses.

 

[RacEoHolic330]

Awesome honor! Dont rush the reassembly

Too late for that. I was a little concerned that the car wouldn't rev past 2500 and wouldn't idle without my foot on the throttle. I marked the distributor real well before I removed it, so I know that had to be relatively close.

I don't actually remember checking the position of the crank when I mounted the flying magnet trigger wheel before I put the engine in. I rotated the engine to 20 degrees btdc. One of the magnets should be lined up with the pickup. It wasn't even close. Sure enough, I mounted the wheel one position off. That means that the crank timing was off about 30 degrees. Whoops! I pulled off the crank pulley and got that fixed. It should hopefully run much better when I start it in the next hour or two. You can see the marks on the wheel from the original mounting and where I mounted it the second time around.

 

[90lxcoupe]

Thatll do it. Make sure you verify the timing with a light when the rpm starts climbing too

 

[RacEoHolic330]

Yea, I'll make sure it's all synced up with the ecu. At least it should idle on its own now.

 

[RacEoHolic330]

Or not... She isn't running the way she should. Something with the timing is definitely off. I tried unplugging the injector harness and seeing where the timing is during cranking, but it doesn't seem to crank fast enough for me to get a good reading. It's running very rich now. Not nearly like the first time I started it, but I'm afraid to run it much more and cause issues with the rings again. I can keep the engine going with my foot in it, but it's still not right. Terrible throttle response and it just sounds off to me. I'll have to give Kris a call Monday and pick his brain a little.

Now that I think about it. I set the crank trigger with the balancer at 20 degrees. The ignition reference angle in the ECU for the crank sensor is 50 degrees. After reading the setup on Holley's forums, I should be setting the trigger with the balancer at 50 degrees. That could be causing some of my issues. It does rev up now though, but it still might be off. It's confusing to me, because MSD's instructions say to set the trigger at whatever you want your idle timing to be. Holley's instructions are different, but their instructions are probably the ones I should be following.

 

[90lxcoupe]

The crank trigger magnet should be at 50* on the balancer for sure. Pull the plugs out and turn the motor over with the injector harness unplugged and check the timing, it should spin fast enough

 

[RacEoHolic330]

Good idea to do it with the plugs out. Didn't even think of that. I'll be messing with it later today.

 

[RacEoHolic330]

The plug out idea worked great. I actually wound up loosely screwing them in and leaving the wires connected to the plugs. I was getting tingles through my hand when I touch the distributor when the wires were not connected to the plugs.

I disabled the idle spark in the ignition settings to keep the timing steady and was able to read 22 degrees of timing while cranking. The ECU was set for 20 degrees. I'm at the top of the range for the crank trigger, so I can't reduce the timing any further. That hasn't changed from when the car was running, so there must have been that cranking timing discrepancy the whole time. I can reduce the cranking timing to 20 degrees, but it means taking the trigger wheel off again (for the third time) and clocking the wheel further down and then re-aligning the sensor.

Any harm in changing the ECU cranking timing to match the timing light? They obviously need to match, but can I take the easy way out and make the computer match what the car is doing instead of visa versa? I still need to synchronize the timing through the RPM range and adjust the inductive delay as necessary. I admittedly didn't pay enough attention when we got the car running for the first time at All Out. I was too busy worrying about the whole thing blowing up. I've definitely learned quite a bit these past 2 days about knowing what needs to be in order with the timing before firing the car up. I think this whole mess is sorted out now though, and I can fire the car back up again tomorrow. Everything should be where it needs to be to run properly. Should being the key word there.

 

[84Ttop]

Once you set the crank trigger at 50* it will never be moved again, the timing offset is adjusted in the ecu to sync the two to read the same. By moving the crank trigger pickup to try and snyc the timing you are only exacerbating the situation.
When you drop the distributor, the cam sync is a little goofy. I've had the most success spinning the motor over to the peak torque timing (i'm guessing around 22 degrees in your case) and dropping the distributor in the motor. Align the tip of the rotor with the #1 pin on the dist cap and lock that sucker down. As mentioned above, with the timing locked in the ecu you can verify the timing with a light and adjust the crack offset until the ecu and timing pointer match.
Shoot me a PM if you can't get a hold of Kris today

 

[RacEoHolic330]

I see what you're saying, Nick. Wouldn't it be a good idea to change the cranking timing in the ECU to match what I actually see with the timing light? Right now I'm getting 22 degrees with the light, but the computer is set to 20 degrees. It's my understanding doing that change will get everything closer to being synchronized properly right off the bat. I can then adjust the inductive delay in the crank trigger settings to make sure the timing is synchronized throughout the rpm range once I get things running. Maybe it's a moot point because everything can be synced afterwards in the ECU.

I marked the hell out of the distributor before I removed it. I do believe I have that back in the exact same spot as before when the engine was at TDC. I'll double check that again too just to see where the rotor is when the engine is sitting at 22 degrees.

 

[84Ttop]

I see what you're saying, Nick. Wouldn't it be a good idea to change the cranking timing in the ECU to match what I actually see with the timing light? Right now I'm getting 22 degrees with the light, but the computer is set to 20 degrees. It's my understanding doing that change will get everything closer to being synchronized properly right off the bat. I can then adjust the inductive delay in the crank trigger settings to make sure the timing is synchronized throughout the rpm range once I get things running. Maybe it's a moot point because everything can be synced afterwards in the ECU.

I marked the hell out of the distributor before I removed it. I do believe I have that back in the exact same spot as before when the engine was at TDC. I'll double check that again too just to see where the rotor is when the engine is sitting at 22 degrees.

I would not mess with the cranking timing at all, 2 degrees of offset shouldn't affect the way the car runs so horribly that it can't run. I've seen as much as 10 degrees of offset with my car depending on where the cam degrees at. Once you get the car running, lock the timing so that is will not fluctuate (we usually lock mine at 25 fwiw) and verify with the light. After doing so you can add or subtract to the crank reference offset until the light and timing pointer match. I think by adjusting the cranking timing you are adding complexity to the situation that is already complex enough to make your head spin clean off

 

[RacEoHolic330]

Oh my head spun off days ago. Danny on the Holley forums was right when he said that synchronizing the time is the easiest thing to do, but the hardest thing to figure out.

Everything should be in the proper spot now. Crank trigger magnet at 50 degrees, distributor in the correct spot, and a solid 22 degrees cranking timing. I'll leave the computer as is and adjust the timing while it's locked down to make sure it doesn't fluctuate as I rev the engine. Thanks for the help! I'll report back later tonight.