Engine What a Conundrum we find ourselves in.

Enzio

Dang it. I was hoping mine would get 3 more inches
May 14, 2019
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Minnesota
I'm pretty sure I can use the old bell and flywheel and clutch. The flywheel was re-balanced last spring when I changed the clutch.
I also replaced the balancer as the existing was rotted out. Would I still need to get a new one?
 
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extra_stout

Advanced Member
Aug 27, 2018
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Yes. till 80ties the 302 had a different imbalance (28 oz) then later (50 oz). This depends on the crankshaft. The crank can be lighter and cheaper if it doesn't have to be balanced internally. The lighter, but imbalanced crank shaft is with the right imbalanced balancer and flywheel/flexplate installed together, balanced externally. So you need specific to your crank the right balancer and flyhweel.

There are different ways to get good results. If you have machined you 69 block, you know that everything is in perfect condition.

In germany you still get some good roller blocks for around 1000-1200€ from some junkyard cars, but you need to hunt for them (not so much american v8s around). Because machining costs are expensive and getting parts from the US is also more expensive because of customs, its more expensive then a used roller block. This is the background because I'm advertising so much for the roller block.
I had really luck with getting two good roller engines.

Regarding the T5 swap I know that the old bell/flywheel/clutch can be reused, but then a spacer between bell and transmission and between pilot bearing and input shaft. But LILCBRA can tell you, I think.
I went the way with the 95 mustang bellhousing, but I'm using exhaust manifold not headers. With your old bell and headers you know that it will fit...
 

Enzio

Dang it. I was hoping mine would get 3 more inches
May 14, 2019
683
505
103
64
Minnesota
I hear you.
I'm still pondering this whole rotating assembly balancing and how that is done.
Thanks.
 

MustangIIMatt

I need something stupid to play with
Mod Dude
Mar 7, 2002
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Hi
Eric the car guy has a good video on balancing the rotating assembly.
That's 99% of the time who's videos I use to explain something that would take too long to type and is better off demonstrated. He knows his :poo:.
 
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LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air
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Thanks extra_stout!

Since you've already hunted for info on balancing the rotating assembly there's really no need to set you up with any other links about it. :D

You could go the retro fit route and install a roller cam, but in your case I don't know if I'd bother with it - it's just more money spent. And from what I understand you're looking for and looking to do I don't think it's necessary. It would be nice, just not necessary.

As for the T5 swap (I think we covered this in an earlier conversation?), you can use your bell housing, flywheel, and clutch. You'll need a sleeve/spacer that installs into the crank that contains the pilot bearing at the correct length for your set up. Any competent machine shop should be able to do this for you as long as you can supply a length, the bearing, and tell them what you're looking to accomplish. You'll also need a modified transmission cross member and you'll need to have your driveshaft shortened. There's also a possibility that you'll need to install some angled shims between the springs and the mounts at the axle to correct the change in drive line angle. You'll also need to adjust the shifter hole inside the car since the T5 shifter is forward of the stock 4 speed shifter by probably an inch? I think that's about it going from memory.

Now if we were going in deep, I'd even suggest a fuel injection setup of some sort. It would definitely help with cold starts and most likely have better driveability, but there's nothing wrong with a carb as long as it's set up well. That's why I suggested an air fuel ratio gauge. I'm sure you don't want to be known as the bug fogger while driving (like I think I am!!)!! :rlaugh:Speaking of that, I should probably look into getting one myself soon - it's already starting to get pretty nice around here.....
 
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Enzio

Dang it. I was hoping mine would get 3 more inches
May 14, 2019
683
505
103
64
Minnesota
You guys amaze me.
I also watched a video on align honing. This is some amazing stuff. My Father in my avatar was a Machinist before he got drafted into WWII. I can remember him making a part for a 52 Studebaker pickup. I had to sit at the lathe and move it .001 each time it cycled while he ran the mill. Cool stuff.
Yes we covered the tranny swap. Thank you.
Alright I think we've covered the block and the machining.
Unless the machinist says the crank needs to be replaced then we're done with that.
Now how about rods and pistons? (at this point plan on aluminum heads) What are your suggestions?
Thanks,
 

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air
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I'd say your rods are fine for what you're looking to do. In my engine I still use the stock sized rod bolts as well, so you'd probably be fine going the same route, but it NEVER hurts to upgrade those if you want. As for the pistons, I'd go with a flat top hypereutectic piston, no need to go forged for what it sounds like you want. Again, it also depends on what your block needs done. If it needs bored you'll need to replace the pistons anyway. If it doesn't need bored the original pistons would be fine unless you want to change compression ratios - which a flat top piston will do that for you most likely.
 
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Enzio

Dang it. I was hoping mine would get 3 more inches
May 14, 2019
683
505
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Minnesota
Thanks. Higher compression is good correct? I just don't want to go too far as 91 octane is readily available around here and I'm assuming the rest of the country.

How about a roller cam? (I didn't even know they were available for an old block.) Is there extra machining that needs to be done to the block for one of them to be used?

Either way what would you recommend?
 

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air
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Higher compression will give you more power, so it's good to a point. Flat tops won't make it so high you can't run even 87 octane in my experience.

I don't think you'd need machining on the block for a retro fit roller lifter set, but I'm not sure on that as I have no experience with it. I believe the solution to that was longer lifters with tie bars in order to keep the rollers going the right direction on the cam and not rotating like standard hydraulic or solid lifters do.

The advantages of a roller cam and lifters is that they can have more aggressive ramp rates vs standard lifters. I believe there might be a YouTube video on the ins and outs, but I'm not sure about that either. Basically it's like rolling a wheel along a bumpy road vs using a sled - if that makes sense. The roller lifter will only contact the cam lobe at a single point theoretically whereas a standard style lifter has a flat surface riding the lobe. Roller cams also have the advantage of not wearing as fast as a standard cam/lifter set. I guess the choice is yours on which you'd prefer to go with, neither will be a horrible choice. But since it sounds like you want a relatively tame engine and not some screamer, the roller cams will only really give you the benefit of less friction and longer life.

It really comes down to cam specs when it comes to how your engine will behave. Cam specs are kind of like voodoo to some - and I'll admit that I'm no guru! I'm STILL learning about cam specs and how they affect an engine. But you'll probably want a wider lobe separation angle so you have vacuum to operate things like power brakes. Something like I suggested which had a 112* LSA provides good vacuum. The more narrow the LSA, the more choppy it sounds at idle and the less vacuum your engine will produce. That's because the exhaust valve isn't closed as much when the intake starts to open. So a cam with something like a 108* LSA will produce less vacuum and have a choppier sound at idle if all other things are equal. Comp Cams has probably the easiest to follow chart vs most websites that try to explain it all:

Here's another site that kinda keeps it short in it's explanation:

But, in the end and in your case, I think it's going to be a cost vs gain comparison. And again, if it were me, I'd just stick to the standard hydraulic lifter and cam. In my opinion the cost doesn't justify the swap for what I think you want to accomplish.
 
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extra_stout

Advanced Member
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puh. that is expensive. You also need the retrofit roller lifters. The problem is, that you need quality retrofit lifters and they are expensive. There are china retrolifters around, but the don't work. A good set costs around 700-800 USD... Beside the fact that a roller cam cots 200-300 USD you are in a price range where you could get a roller block with oem quality hardware that runs for 200.000 mls.
Stay with the hydraulic flat tappet cam!
 
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Enzio

Dang it. I was hoping mine would get 3 more inches
May 14, 2019
683
505
103
64
Minnesota
Here's the lifters.

Trick Flow® Hydraulic Lifters and Lash Adjusters TFS-21400006

$460

just saying we'll put that one on the back burner for now.
 
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LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air
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Yep, like I said, I don't see a benefit for what you're looking to do vs the cost of the components.
 

Enzio

Dang it. I was hoping mine would get 3 more inches
May 14, 2019
683
505
103
64
Minnesota
It's off the table for now. I'll make the final call when I know the cost of the total package.
Let's talk about the Hydraulic cam shaft. You like the one you're using. Melling 24203. 74stang2togo likes the Comp Cam 31-238-3.
$143.00 $107.00
Comp 31-238-3 Melling 24203
Duration 262 / 270 302 / 308
lift .493 / .500 .538 / .562
lob sep. degrees 110 112

Is this correct?
Is the addition of the trick flow heads the reason you can have the greater lift on the melling cam?
 

Enzio

Dang it. I was hoping mine would get 3 more inches
May 14, 2019
683
505
103
64
Minnesota
I made a really nice comparison chart and it came out all wrong. Let me try to do that again.