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What To Do...

  • Thread starter Thread starter cleanLX
  • Start date Start date Dec 4, 2016
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cleanLX

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#1
  • Dec 4, 2016
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So, as some of you know I put together a little 306 with stock heads and made 368/363 to the wheels.
Combo really started to make steam around 4000rpm and was a gas up to 7200rpm and sounded like a demon.
Car was a lot o fun, but recently ate a bunch of needle bearings, so the motor is out.
It's going to sit for about a year while I save my nickles and dimes to put her back together.
There is a good chance it ate the cam, which was the real jewel to this combo.
Part of me says, go a little more wild on the cam and throw it back together.
Part of me looks at the AFR 195 renegade heads and says... hmmm... bet I could make 450+ at the wheels with those... if done right... but would involve not just heads, but intake porting, all new exhaust and revisit the fuel delivery. Be fun to have a ~450hp ~7600rpm 306...
Now, done right, by my calculations, there is about a $10,000.00 delta between putting it back together, or going to aluminum heads.
Heads done right, 3600.
pistons, 1000
Push rods, 200.
Exhaust done right, 2500.
Fuel upgrades 800.
Intake magic 1000.
unknowns, 1000.
I'm by no means rich (blue collar worker), but we live well below our means, just paid off a vehicle, are about to pay off another... and I think can come up with the extra 10g's over the next year.

Part of me loves the underdog stock head approach... part of me says, ok, you've been there and done that, now you have to tear the thing apart and throw it back together, so, while it's out... what to do?
 
Last edited: Dec 4, 2016

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
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#2
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450 at the wheels is a tall order for a 306. That's approximately 1.67hp per cubic inch. Not saying you can't do it(I'm sure it's possible),but having it livable on the street will be another challenge. I would think a Super Vic intake(ported),a great mech roller,compression in the 11:1 area,and some great heads(the 195's will need to be worked over),and all the other areas you mentioned. Also going to have to spin it hard. Which makes valvetrain durability issues. I can't wait to see which direction you go. The stock head build was reallly cool but if it were me...I'd go aluminum and see what I could make happen this time around.
 
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cleanLX

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agreed.
the bottom end is good for 8000rpm, and I'm running 4.56's now, not afraid of 4.88's. Car already hates life below 2000, really wants to be above 2500 and idles at 1200. Makes right around 1.4hp/cu.in now with little 220cfm heads. If I go to the 195's I'd also go to 3.060... what's that? 311cu.in." Was looking at 11.5:1 with some neat light pistons. I'm thinking with ~300cfm I can get there... or close... If math is correct, I'm making a little over 1.9hp/cfm now... thinking 1.85hp/cfm is doable...and keep drivability in the ball park of where it is now...
Already have shaft mounts that will work, and figured in ti valves/retainers.
$$$...
 
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Jersey Joe

I remember blowing that Monkey's ass
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#4
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In most cases I'm of the thinking that if it's gotta come off I might as well replace or upgrade, plus it's real nice putting new stuff together,
 

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
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#5
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cleanLX said:
agreed.
the bottom end is good for 8000rpm, and I'm running 4.56's now, not afraid of 4.88's. Car already hates life below 2000, really wants to be above 2500 and idles at 1200. Makes right around 1.4hp/cu.in now with little 220cfm heads. If I go to the 195's I'd also go to 3.060... what's that? 311cu.in." Was looking at 11.5:1 with some neat light pistons. I'm thinking with ~300cfm I can get there... or close... If math is correct, I'm making a little over 1.9hp/cfm now... thinking 1.85hp/cfm is doable...and keep drivability in the ball park of where it is now...
Already have shaft mounts that will work, and figured in ti valves/retainers.
$$$...
Click to expand...
Not sure on the costs but you should check out some of Ed's high port tfs heads at flowtechinduction.com. I know with his complete setup it's in the 345cfm range and he does has ported intakes also. Might be one stop shopping for your entire project(cam also?)
 

cleanLX

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been talking to him.
never even new accufab made headers until he and I spoke.
AFR is at the front right now, as, it would allow me to keep my current shaft mounts and pistons... if I go piston route, may still lean heavy to AFR to keep the shaft mount. Piston $1000 shafts $1500... would be nice to avoid those big ticket items if possible.
 
Last edited: Dec 4, 2016

RangerJoe

I leave the horn on while driving
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#7
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This is a hard one. I love your motor, but I also love more power. I saw a thread on corral the other day where a guy was claiming 450 fwhp with AFR 165''s on a 306, so I really think it's doable with the 195's.

How about rebuilding it the way it is and hide about 150hp worth of nitrous on it?!

Seriously, it's a little sad to see the motor go so early, but it's your call. $10k is a lot of money.

Joe
 
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stykthyn

I want to measure mine. It doesn't look that tall.
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#8
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RangerJoe said:
This is a hard one. I love your motor, but I also love more power. I saw a thread on corral the other day where a guy was claiming 450 fwhp with AFR 165''s on a 306, so I really think it's doable with the 195's.

How about rebuilding it the way it is and hide about 150hp worth of nitrous on it?!

Seriously, it's a little sad to see the motor go so early, but it's your call. $10k is a lot of money.

Joe
Click to expand...
 
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Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?
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cleanLX said:
Car was a lot o fun, but recently ate a bunch of needle bearings, so the motor is out.
Click to expand...

Needle bearings? Which needle bearings?
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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The ones that are in all the wrong places
 
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cleanLX

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ate a shaft mount rocker.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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I hear they taste like chicken.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
 

RangerJoe

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stykthyn said:
Click to expand...

I would love to see something like this done over the 195's. You already blow people's minds with the E7's, why not take it a step further. Re-gap the rings and a new custom cam to go with it. Go run some 10's!

Joe
 
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Blandnuts

I don't swallow; I only swoosh
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I would do your tear down and see what needs to be replaced. Then, see what direction you should go.
 
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Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?
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Blandnuts said:
I would do your tear down and see what needs to be replaced. Then, see what direction you should go.
Click to expand...

This. A failure as simple as losing rocker bearings doesn't necessarily mean the engine is wasted and you have to throw 20k at it. Actually take it apart and see what the damage is. Throwing huge amounts of money at an engine isn't always the answer.
 

cleanLX

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ya, you guys are right.
thanks for the reality check.
 

Black1987

my wife Bedazzled my input shaft
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cleanLX said:
ya, you guys are right.
thanks for the reality check.
Click to expand...


or you could get P-38 Heads
http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com/html/kaase_p-38_canted_valve_small_block_ford_heads.html

Just messing, tear down, rebuild, repeat. BTW what cam was in it?
 

hoopty5.0

mechanicus terribilis
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It sounds like you've already made up your mind and have been talking to Ed. I like the idea of keeping the pistons and rockers and bolting on the 195s and a new intake.
As you said, you've had fun with the E7 heads, time to move on to the next project?
 

cleanLX

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I'm aware of those P-38's.
Kinda like running a factory Ford head...
 
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Black1987

my wife Bedazzled my input shaft
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cleanLX said:
I'm aware of those P-38's.
Kinda like running a factory Ford head...
Click to expand...

Yeah slap those on and then technically you're not lying when someone asks what heads are you running.." Ah just a Ford P head"
 
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