What will too much advance do?

[iskwezm]

Im still fighting with this new engine running hot,i know its not even got 100 miles yet,but I reset my timing to about 32* from about 38 ish.The carb is really fat because it was made for the blower and I dont want to rejet it because I paid to have it built and flowed to all my specs.I replced the t-stat and the hoses and added some of that 40 Below stuff to see if it helps.Other then that,I have a Be Cool 2 row,2 16" fans,brassworks w/p etc.

But what will too much timing cause and what should I be at?

 

[cgstang]

It's still pretty new so the engine is going to run hotter because there is more friction until stuff starts breaking in. Another thought might be that you have an air bubble in your cooling system

 

[iskwezm]

It's still pretty new so the engine is going to run hotter because there is more friction until stuff starts breaking in. Another thought might be that you have an air bubble in your cooling system

I just flushed and refilled today,ran the rpm to about 2500,topped it off and put the cap on.Guess ill just keep driving and hope it calms down,at this rate i'll never get the blower belt on.

 

[4MuscleMachines]

I would keep checking the coolant level and burp it every chance you get. At times they are a bitch to get out.

 

[mustangdave]

If you are running way to rich, it will wash the oil from the cylinder walls leaving very little lubrication for the pistons. This will kill your engine in short time: don't run the car this way. The lack of lube could also cause the engine to overheat. Change your oil and see if there are signs of gas in it.

 

[steel1212]

Yup, too rich is a bad thing. I don't think your running to much timeing and causing it to over heat. I run 38 total and 10 initial in mine and it was fine before I added more compression and hp with the new heads and now it over heats in traffic. It did a little bit before but would stop at a point, now it just keeps on going

 

[D.Hearne]

Im still fighting with this new engine running hot,i know its not even got 100 miles yet,but I reset my timing to about 32* from about 38 ish.The carb is really fat because it was made for the blower and I dont want to rejet it because I paid to have it built and flowed to all my specs.I replced the t-stat and the hoses and added some of that 40 Below stuff to see if it helps.Other then that,I have a Be Cool 2 row,2 16" fans,brassworks w/p etc.

But what will too much timing cause and what should I be at?

Too much timing will result in detonation and will eventually destroy the pistons. If you're not willling to rejet the carb, just because it's "supposed" to be "in spec", you'll likely never get the engine running right. Nothing hard about jetting a carb, just takes time, effort and an assortment of jet screws. Jetting is a trial and error effort, you simply cannot jet a carb exactly without running it on the engine first.

 

[zookeeper]

Hearne's right about that, but I wouldn't bet on the carb being the cause of your heat troubles, unless it's waaay too lean. Is it hard to start? Are the plugs perfectly clean, with no sign of brown or black? If not, it may be close enough to get your heat troubles in hand. Look at the basics of your cooling system. Is the radiator a stocker, or an aluminum aftermarket radiator? The stockers barely cool a stocker, with your motor, a nice aluminum unit would be money well spent, and I'd use the biggest one that'll fit. Also, if you're using electric fans, don't mount them in front of the radiator, blocking the flow to the radiator will cause trouble every time. Is your coolant mixed right? Using too much anti-freeze will also cause overheating, it's best to use more water than more anti-freeze for cooling sake. Also, try products like Water Wetter ot Engine Ice. They are like magic in a bottle. My motocrosser will boil out the coolant if I let it idle for even a couple minutes, but since I switched to Engine Ice, it's not even a problem. I didn't see what temp your car is running, but 210 degrees or so at idle isn't unreasonable, as long as it calms down once the car is moving. Also, keep checking your plugs during your tuning phase, and if you see even the slightest evidence of detonation, back the timing off and consider going a bit richer with the fuel.

 

[Edbert]

Go buy a cheapo factory replacement from the local parts store during break-in?

Also, is it running hot or boiling over? Being a little hot is not that big of a deal during break-in. I wouldn't worry unless you are over 230, or unless it doesn't go away after some hours of break-in driving.

 

[whwright]

at this rate i'll never get the blower belt on.

What does this mean? I've never had a supercharged car, but I would think that trying to run it "without the belt" would cause the engine to work really hard just pulling air through the compressor, creating extra heat.

I would also expect it to wreak havoc on the fuel metering systems, making jet adjustments impossible.

 

[zookeeper]

I can't speak for Paxton-type blowers, but I learned the hard way the rootes-type blowers run pretty well without a belt. Several years ago, my brother built a dropped, 2WD '72 Blazer with a blown 350 Chevy in it. I borrowed it one night and as luck would have it, on the way home the bolt holding the bottom pulley onto the crank (Dyer's blower drives don't use a balancer, so the pulley attaches right to the crank) broke due to the belt being too tight. Since it was on the freeway, I never noticed until I put the thing in the garage and noticed there was no blower whine. I know Paxton carbed setups use a pressure box, so the carb is mounted just like it would be on a naturally-aspirated motor. But you're right about one thing, it would likely be pretty rich.

 

[iskwezm]

Too much timing will result in detonation and will eventually destroy the pistons. If you're not willling to rejet the carb, just because it's "supposed" to be "in spec", you'll likely never get the engine running right. Nothing hard about jetting a carb, just takes time, effort and an assortment of jet screws. Jetting is a trial and error effort, you simply cannot jet a carb exactly without running it on the engine first.

I wasnt concerned about detonation because it doesnt.I know jetting the carb isnt hard,i have doen it before,but i paid a pretty penny to have it built for the specs of all the engine parts, i really dont know how they do it without my engine,but they must know something.I figured too much advance would make it run hot,but how much is too much????

It never spits out water or loses a drop,but i hate to see the guage rise,and once it hits 210,itll keep climbing if i sit there.

 

[iskwezm]

What does this mean? I've never had a supercharged car, but I would think that trying to run it "without the belt" would cause the engine to work really hard just pulling air through the compressor, creating extra heat.

I would also expect it to wreak havoc on the fuel metering systems, making jet adjustments impossible.

the problem with a blower is that as it compresses the air,it gets hotter,so that will make the incomming air at ambient temperature plus the compressed temperature,and it gets pretty warm.

 

[Max Power]

I am guessing he has a centrifugal blower, not a roots style.

Overly retarded timing causes heat, overlay advanced timing causes detonation and hard starting. My car runs about 20 degrees cooler at 12 degrees initial rather than 6 degrees initial.

 

[iskwezm]

Well the weather really cooled off here today and im showing it in the first show at Saleen tomorrow since the 2 restoration,so i'll see how it runs with the 40* Below and 32 * timing,should be in the mid 70's tomorro w

 

[D.Hearne]

I wasnt concerned about detonation because it doesnt.I know jetting the carb isnt hard,i have doen it before,but i paid a pretty penny to have it built for the specs of all the engine parts, i really dont know how they do it without my engine,but they must know something.I figured too much advance would make it run hot,but how much is too much????

It never spits out water or loses a drop,but i hate to see the guage rise,and once it hits 210,itll keep climbing if i sit there.

Hard to say what too much timing is, without being there first hand, but if it's pinging, it's too much. Either back off on it then or use a higher octane fuel. As for the carb tuning, you can get it close without it being on the motor(or in some cases dead on) but usually it'll have to be fine tuned with the engine running. If it's overheating while idling, that's not a tuning issue, but rather a lack of radiator cooling capacity or not enough airflow thru the radiator.

 

[Edbert]

If it's overheating while idling, that's not a tuning issue, but rather a lack of radiator cooling capacity or not enough airflow thru the radiator.

You beat me to it! That was my conclusion based on the comment about it rising while "stting there". An adequately sized radiator with enough fan-driven airflow will remain cool, even in 100 degree weather. If temps rise while idling either the coolant is insuficient (mixture or volume) or the airflow is (volume of airflow or radiator surface area).

 

[iskwezm]

Hard to say what too much timing is, without being there first hand, but if it's pinging, it's too much. Either back off on it then or use a higher octane fuel. As for the carb tuning, you can get it close without it being on the motor(or in some cases dead on) but usually it'll have to be fine tuned with the engine running. If it's overheating while idling, that's not a tuning issue, but rather a lack of radiator cooling capacity or not enough airflow thru the radiator.

Well i drove it to the Saleen show today,ran about 180* on the freeway then reached about 210* in line(10 minutes?)Ran about 190ish on the way home in about 75* weather.I know the carb is way too rich,its reall doggy on the top and doesnt like to rev past 5300,but i hardly get on it right now.

I have 2 16" 2200 cfm fans(pusher/puller),should they be flat against the radiator???It runs hotter without the pusher too,so i know it helps some.Is a 2 row Be Cool enough or should I go to a 5.0 radiator?

Also I dont run coolant,just 40* Below and straight water.

 

[zm830101]

I have 2 16" 2200 cfm fans(pusher/puller),should they be flat against the radiator???It runs hotter without the pusher too,so i know it helps some.Is a 2 row Be Cool enough or should I go to a 5.0 radiator?

Also I dont run coolant,just 40* Below and straight water.

no the fans should not be right against the radiator. and rather than use the two fans facing each other i would use two smaller fans munted on the engine side with at least one inch between the blades and the radiator. if your fabrication skills are up to it i would recomend mounting the two fans on a home built aluminum shroud as well.

 

[iskwezm]

if your fabrication skills are up to it i would recomend mounting the two fans on a home built aluminum shroud as well.

now your just talking about more work

So does anybody think 2 8" fans are better on the engine side?