What would you do H/C/I or Vortech.

[OrangeMustangGt]

My brother has a bone stock 95' GTS(engine wise), It does have 4:10 gears, and long tubes with full exhaust. He has just about enough money right now for either a trickflow kit or a vortech kit.

I was telling him to go h/c/i because of the N/A power right off the line,and reliability.
But the vortech has positives also, easier to install, possibly better gas mileage and more possible power?

What are some pro's/cons and what do you advise?

 

[drakesdad]

Kyle......you cant give him one of your turbo's.....
I'm a fan of the TFS H/C/I........that and 1.19 will get me another DEW.....
either way he is going to have to get some supporting mods.........I'd say go HCI and later on if he desires add the S/C.........but I have seen others say that with just the SC you don't have the driveability issues......but I don't know which would be better

 

[dstanggt50]

I would get the vortech, usually from what I've seen you will get more hp than going the h/c/i. I would think a vortech on a relatively stock car and good tune can hit over the 300rwhp mark with ease. I also think 5.0 or some mag did a comparison between the s-trim, and h/c/i, and the s-trim put out more power.

 

[yellow1995Cobra]

Vortech + intake mani. 350-370 rwhp will be easy. Get it tuned in.. And you have a reliable fairly high hp car..

 

[94-302-vert]

N/A... It will be things lihe the MAF and injectors that limit you anyways...

 

[Green 94 5.0]

Vortech + intake mani. 350-370 rwhp will be easy. Get it tuned in.. And you have a reliable fairly high hp car..

350-370 is pushing it.....on a nearly stock car i would estimate 320-330. the stock maf, and stock heads will limit what you will gain. the stock heads cant handle all the rpm's that centrifugal superchargers require. if he isnt planning on modding further though and still wants a smooth idle, the blower is the way to go.

 

[YEAHLOH95]

i say go vortech and yes it will make upper 300's tuned right

 

[drakesdad]

Alright....I have to ask this...sorry Kyle....
If I were looking for more rwhp and somewhat limited driveability issues........
I have the Track Heat combo with all supporting mods......keep the heads.....change the cam?????and go SC.......maybe back to stock cam...what would you guys suggest....
Will

 

[Green 94 5.0]

Alright....I have to ask this...sorry Kyle....
If I were looking for more rwhp and somewhat limited driveability issues........
I have the Track Heat combo with all supporting mods......keep the heads.....change the cam?????and go SC.......maybe back to stock cam...what would you guys suggest....
Will

if im not mistaken that combo comes with the tfs stage 1. that is a very mild cam and even with the 112lsa i didnt have any major issues with driveability. you should be able to slap the blower on there and be just fine. however if the mildly lopey idle isnt for you, you could always go back to the stock can and go with some 1.7 or 1.72 rockers to compensate for the reduction in lift between the two.

 

[final5-0]

Like Will said ... Supporting parts are an issue no matter which way you go ... that is if you are gonna do it correctly.

h/c/i
inj/maf - too small
can get by with jacking up the pressure really high

blower
inj's - too small
can get by with doing the fmu thing
maf - too small
its gonna be pegged

You can never forget all the small stuff that goes with the main stuff.

ALL of it has to work together in such a way that all parts complement each other or the whole package can be less than desirable. You see it all the time ... a guy sings the blues ... after the big upgrade

Kyle's brother has 410's ... not the best choice for a blower.

however ... if going NA ... not a bad choice at all since h/c/i combos shift the power band up a bit.

The gears could be a consideration ... I think.

anyway ... moving on

If stock ... I have kinda gone to the thinking a forced combo COULD be the best choice. The thing about being stock is ... you don't have anything yet that would be a bad choice for going either way.

I feel the COULD word is necessary because a forced combo requires more attention from the owner than a NA combo.

I just think a forced combo is not the best choice for everybody.

Speaking about attention or maintenance of combos

Heck ... you don't have to look too hard to see h/c/i combos have been nothing but for several who have done em over the years.

Some folk are a bit naive before building up their Stang.

When you pull 70% to 100% more power out of your Stang ......

You should expect it to require more maintenance than a little stocker

no matter if you go forced or NA.

If your Stang is a daily driver ... this kinda stuff can really hurt you.

decisions decisions decisions

Grady

 

[OrangeMustangGt]

thanks for the help so far guys....i guess everyone is fairly split on this one. I guess the gears arn't soo much of a consideration because he hates the 4:10's.....He is gonna take my 3:73's when i switch to 3:27's.......You guys make a good point though that i didn't think of.....the h/c/i will give some drivability problems requiring a custom tune, where as the vortech sorta comes as a "kit" and to my knowledge doesn't need to be tuned. Question....will stock head gaskets and bolts hold up to boost?.....mine actually did on my car till i went lean....

 

[BlackVert]

mine seemed to be holding up fine, but now i'm low on coolant again so i'm not too sure

 

[yellow1995Cobra]

350-370 is pushing it.....on a nearly stock car i would estimate 320-330. the stock maf, and stock heads will limit what you will gain. the stock heads cant handle all the rpm's that centrifugal superchargers require. if he isnt planning on modding further though and still wants a smooth idle, the blower is the way to go.

I dunno if you read these forums, but there has been quite of few stock heads + cam vortech cars make 350+ rwhp.

Obviosly you would change the MAF, i mean comon, thats a no brainer.. Maf+injectors would need to be swapped.

 

[mo_dingo]

h/c/i means you get all new valvetrain, which means your engine will last longer!!! (likely)

You can always stick a blower on later anyway.....
Scott

 

[GRGT1994]

I have to question a couple of things I am reading here.

First on power, a Vortech kit will make about 50% over stock. So from 180 rwhp (assuming we are talking about a stick - less for an auto), we add 90hp, bringing the total to about 270 rwhp. And that matches up with what many report here for the Vortech kit alone. If you want more, then you will need intake and head work (probably both). So the 350 to 370 rwhp estimates are a bit misleading. Now I would assume that the LT and exhaust should be good for some rwhp, but not 80. Compare that to what many report with an HCI setup. Often those run between 285 to 310 rwhp (again on a stick). I got to 285 with full supporting mods and a custom tune by AFM. So as a pure question of rwhp, the HCI edges out.

As far as tuning, I think I read above that the supercharger wouldn't need a tune but the HCI would. That's opposite. A SC requires a tune. The Vortech kit does not include a custom chip or any kind of tune (that's probably the reason your car leaned out - no tune). An HCI with a mild cam can run very well without a tune, and even run pretty good with an aggressive cam (the primary issue people report is poor idle - but almost never the engine eating lean condition that a SC creates). So factor in the cost of a tune to the SC kit. Either way, you will want a dyno tune eventually. You just need it immediately if you get the Vortech.

All that aside, I think the question really goes to how much you want to put into the car. A SC kit would give you a solid, noticeable bump up in power. And it's much less invasive to install (no breaking factory seals - a definite consideration on an otherwise reliable stock motor). Not to mention, the SC kit would probably be a bit easier to install too. Still, done well, an HCI kit could be very satisfying and reliable too.

Either way, you will have room to grow (start with a SC then do HCI or vice versa). But keep in mind that you can wind up spending a good chunk on tools and supporting mods either way too (like 50% to 100% of the cost of the kit).

Sorry for the book. Obviously I think about this choice a bit since I did my HCI last summer. Good luck.

 

[Therian]

.

First on power, a Vortech kit will make about 50% over stock. So from 180 rwhp (assuming we are talking about a stick - less for an auto), we add 90hp, bringing the total to about 270 rwhp. And that matches up with what many report here for the Vortech kit alone. If you want more, then you will need intake and head work (probably both). So the 350 to 370 rwhp estimates are a bit misleading. Now I would assume that the LT and exhaust should be good for some rwhp, but not 80. Compare that to what many report with an HCI setup. Often those run between 285 to 310 rwhp (again on a stick). I got to 285 with full supporting mods and a custom tune by AFM. So as a pure question of rwhp, the HCI edges out.

A S-trim with inj. + MAF will make over 300 rwhp WITHOUT a tune and can make over 350 with a tune. 50% is on bone stock, with no exhaust, intake or fuel mods whatsoever. These are the exact same mods that would be required of an HCI that wants to see anything over 300 rwhp.

I agree though that both are very positive moves, and each allow you to build on to the other. It's difficult to go wrong. If it were me, and I was into superchargers more than turbos I'd do the vortech first. If you wanted a turbo setup I'd probably lean towards doing an H/C/I first.

Bottom line, with a proper tune and spending the same amount on the vortech as the H/C/I I would say that the supercharger would produce more power.

 

[HGFireHazard]

Let me give you guys my facts with my mods. I have 1 5/8" LTs with the rest of the exhaust and upgraded fuel (42# inj, 80mm maf... check my sig) and on the stock longblock I made 313 rwhp and 374 rwtq. Look:

In one of the stickies with stangnet combos there is someone with an aode running the same basic parts as me plus an aftermarket intake making over 350. From what I have seen of others H/C/I dyno graphs you can't argue with these results. My driveability is great, but with the 42# injectors, 18" wheels and cobra brakes I get 15.x mpg. Take your pick, each has their ups and downs, but my vote is for the blower if you want the most horsies for the same (or at least similar) buck.

 

[BlackVert]

i think i like grady's dyno graph more. look at that nice flat torque curve!

 

[FORCED2DV8]

I would do a HCI before a S/C. depends on how far you want to go with it though, if you just want 300 some rwhp. then just get a S/C and be done, If your going to want more, HCI then the supercharger in the future.

 

[94-302-vert]

That is a good point that acceleration is area under the curve. for this the H/C/I wins...