Which cylinder heads is the best for 289 CID?

robbz28 · Nov 17, 2010

Heres some flow numbers for ported factory 289 heads, avg intake 170, avg Exh, 143. THose numbers are slightly better than AFR 165 and you can do this for 500 dollars less, but either head would be a good choice for a 289.

http://powerheads.com/images/FLOW-TEST-289-302.gif

Hack · Nov 17, 2010

I think the AFR185s are a good choice for a performance head for a 289, but I agree that the rest of the intake and exhaust components have to support what you're doing with the engine. Also cam, gears, converter, etc.

You can run significantly more than 9.1:1 compression on pump gas (here 93 octane is premium) with a good set of aluminum heads and the right cam. You want the engine and all components to support each other for the best outcome. Normally I'd recommend talking to a custom cam designer, telling him what you want and doing what he says. Since you are in Turkey that might not be easily done. Probably best would be to copy someone that has what you want.

If you're only changing heads and pistons - probably just a port cleanup and a good performance valve job on the heads is plenty. Anything over that and the exhaust will limit your performance too much anyway. I'd be surprised if you make an honest 300 hp with factory exhaust and that intake. Probably more like 200-220 hp. You need more intake and exhaust flow along with improved heads to get closer to 300 hp.

KaraKedi · Nov 18, 2010

My exhaust:
Tri-Y headers, Flowmaster Deltaflow 40 series

4 speed manual transmission

Stock dif.

But i confused about heads, AFR? Stock, 165, 185?

D.Hearne · Nov 18, 2010

KaraKedi said:
My exhaust:
Tri-Y headers, Flowmaster Deltaflow 40 series

4 speed manual transmission

Stock dif.

But i confused about heads, AFR? Stock, 165, 185?

Your car will be happiest with ported stock heads, or AFR165's (or something equivalent to these) Just makes sure to watch the combustion chamber size, no bigger than 58 cc's is what you want, so as to keep the compression ratio up in the 9-10 to 1 range. If you go with ported stock heads, make sure they also have screw in rocker studs and guide plates, as the stock pressed in studs tend to get worked out of the heads with big cams working the rockers.

Vinyl66 · Nov 18, 2010

robbz28 said:
Heres some flow numbers for ported factory 289 heads, avg intake 170, avg Exh, 143. THose numbers are slightly better than AFR 165 and you can do this for 500 dollars less, but either head would be a good choice for a 289.

http://powerheads.com/images/FLOW-TEST-289-302.gif

Better than 165's???

Powerheads:
cfm @ .500" lift Intake 215 Exhaust 174

AFR 165
cfm @ .500" lift Intake 250 Exhaust 185

The AFR 165's are MUCH better across the board. The 185's are even better

htwheelz67 · Nov 18, 2010

flow numbers alone mean nothing, velocity, swirl, chamber shape, cross sectional area all come into play on cyl heads, look on AFR's own website under articles and look under MM&FF guide to 5.0 cyl heads, flow numbers and dyno tests with 5 different engine combos and just about every head made ( I cant seem to post the link right now) the 289 has a very forgotten advantage over the 302, the rod to stroke ratio, you can run more compression without detonation. You can get very decent power from ported stock heads but even a cast iron windsor jr will do better if you go aluminum with the right combo you can run 10+ compression on low octane. 185 Will kill low end on a 289, the TW will not and has a 61cc chamber which can easily be milled down.

Vinyl66 · Nov 19, 2010

htwheelz67 said:
185 Will kill low end on a 289, the TW will not and has a 61cc chamber which can easily be milled down.

MM&FF did a head to head test on the 185's vs 165's on a 302 and the 185's outpowered the 165's from start (3000) to finish (6200).

They also did an AFR 185 vs Trick Flow test on a 302 with standard upgraded items (Vic. Jr intake, Demon 750, long tube headers, etc.) and the 185's outpowered the TW from start (3000) to finish(6000). The TW made 399 hp and the 185's made 418.

AFR 185 cc Cylinder Head Vs. TFS Twisted Wedge (Pt. 1)

Why would the 185's totally kill the low end on a 289 when they are better than the 165's and the TW on a 302?

D.Hearne · Nov 19, 2010

Vinyl66 said:
MM&FF did a head to head test on the 185's vs 165's on a 302 and the 185's outpowered the 165's from start (3000) to finish (6200).

They also did an AFR 185 vs Trick Flow test on a 302 with standard upgraded items (Vic. Jr intake, Demon 750, long tube headers, etc.) and the 185's outpowered the TW from start (3000) to finish(6000). The TW made 399 hp and the 185's made 418.

AFR 185 cc Cylinder Head Vs. TFS Twisted Wedge (Pt. 1)

Why would the 185's totally kill the low end on a 289 when they are better than the 165's and the TW on a 302?

First, How many 302's are DRIVEN DAILY between 3000 and 6000 rpms ? And second: Bolting the same heads on an engine with fewer cubic inches to pull air thru them will not improve the bottom end performance whatsoever.

D.Hearne · Nov 19, 2010

KaraKedi said:
I want to a daily drive ride, not too much power. MAx 350 HP is perfect result for Me.
In Turkey, i have No chance for try new challanges.
Proven combination will be the best for Me
Regards

Vinyl66: Please read this again, apparently you didn't get the gist of it the first time.................................

Vinyl66 · Nov 19, 2010

D.Hearne said:
Vinyl66: Please read this again, apparently you didn't get the gist of it the first time.................................

Well, if the gist of the thread is not wanting too much power then by all means stick with the stock heads. Do not change a thing.

Vinyl66 · Nov 19, 2010

D.Hearne said:
First, How many 302's are DRIVEN DAILY between 3000 and 6000 rpms ? And second: Bolting the same heads on an engine with fewer cubic inches to pull air thru them will not improve the bottom end performance whatsoever.

He's definitely not going to get his 350 HP at 2000 rpm. I still see no reason to use the 165's. I'd stick with the 185's or the Trick Flow Twisted Wedge. Both are very good performance heads that can grow with your HP greediness

KaraKedi · Nov 19, 2010

Price/Performance is very important for me.
Vinyl66, why are suggested Trick Flow. This is cheaper than AFR, isn't it?

Daily drive is another important criteria for me. More power is more problem in Istanbul rush hour traffic. I do not want to make a track car. I wanna drive my car with my family at weekend but i wanna some power under my feet

350 HP is really perfect power accourding to my wishes.

If you said that, dont need to change heads, where can i gain more 50-75 HP from my Mustang?
I guess, reduce friction is an alternative, rocker arms, al. pulley etc.

Are there any suggestion?

Thaks for advice
Regards

Pony66 · Nov 19, 2010

KaraKedi said:
Price/Performance is very important for me.
Vinyl66, why are suggested Trick Flow. This is cheaper than AFR, isn't it?

Daily drive is another important criteria for me. More power is more problem in Istanbul rush hour traffic. I do not want to make a track car. I wanna drive my car with my family at weekend but i wanna some power under my feet

350 HP is really perfect power accourding to my wishes.

If you said that, dont need to change heads, where can i gain more 50-75 HP from my Mustang?
I guess, reduce friction is an alternative, rocker arms, al. pulley etc.

Are there any suggestion?

Thaks for advice
Regards

I think I would start with Tri-Y headers and good pipes. Whatever heads you choose, you need good exhaust. The stock manifolds really choke your power out. For very little money, you can open up the exhaust ports on your 289 heads. That is really the problem with stock heads.

Forget building a stroker out of a 289 block. The piston skirts are shorter than the 302. I have a mild stroker with a 302 block, flat top pistons and the 289 heads. I love the power on my street cruiser.

I know Im not near 350 hp. I still have to put on the headers but i need money for the pipes. I also have the stock 4V intake, I will swap to a shelby style when I can. After that I hopefully will be around 300hp.

If you are around 300hp, I think you would get more response from your car by putting lower gears in the rear end. Example, 350 hp with 2.79 gears would probably run slower than 300hp and 4.11 gears.

Personally I would build the 289 with flat pistons, decent cam and 289 heads. I prefer the original look. Then spend your money on a T-5 5 speed tranny and then you can really lower the gears in the rear.
I am very happy with that combo in my 66.

When you want more power, and you always will, you can think about new heads again. But you will have a better bottom end, good exhaust, and the driveline to match those expensive heads. Like posted above, you need to beef up the bottom for the big heads to really do their job.

Vinyl66 · Nov 19, 2010

The Trick Flow heads are very good and are cheaper than the AFR's. Summit has them brand new for under 1K:
Trick Flow Specialties TFS-51400004 - Trick Flow® Twisted Wedge® 170 Cylinder Heads for Small Block Ford - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Any of the aftermarket heads can be great for a daily driver. I don't consider going to larger cylinder heads as being detrimental to a daily driver. Many new cars these days use very big cylinder heads with small cams and make great power throughout the rpm range.

Going overboard on cams, converters, and gears on the other hand can make a car not nearly as street worthy. Lumpy idling at 1200 rpm, low vacuum, reving 4 grand on the highway doesn't make as good of a daily driver.

As long as your compression ratio is somewhere in the 10:1 range and you get a decent matched cam, you can make your 350 hp with either head.

KaraKedi · Nov 19, 2010

Pony66 said:
I think I would start with Tri-Y headers and good pipes. Whatever heads you choose, you need good exhaust. The stock manifolds really choke your power out. For very little money, you can open up the exhaust ports on your 289 heads. That is really the problem with stock heads.

My rides details are below,

Exhaust System:
Flowmaster 40 Series Delta Flow Mufflers
Tri-Y Headers
2,50" H-Pipe

Engine:
COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Cam and Lifter Kits
600 cfm Holley Electric Choke Carburetor
Weiand Dual Plane Intake Manifold
MSD Ready to Run Pro-Billet Distributor
MSD Blaster 2
MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor Spark Plug Wire Set
NGK Spurk Plugs
K&N Air Filter
GMB High Performance Water Pumps
Holley Mechanical Fuel Pump
Holley Fuel Pressure Regulator
Edelbrock Aluminum Timing Covers
Aluminum Radiator
Derale High Output Rad Electric Fan
Derale Deluxe Adjustable Controllers with Pipe Threaded Probe
Flex-a-lite Overflow Tank

Suspension/Chassis:
Global West Subframe Connector
Addco 3/4" Rear Sway Bar
Addco 1" Front Sway Bar
620 LB/IN 1" Drop Coil Spring Kit
1" Lowering Block Kit Rear Axle

Factory Options:
289 CID A Code Engine
Disc Front Brake
4 Speed Manual
8" Differantial

May be i have to spend some money to Limited Slip Differentials and 3.25 gear

D.Hearne · Nov 19, 2010

KaraKedi said:
My rides details are below,

Exhaust System:
Flowmaster 40 Series Delta Flow Mufflers
Tri-Y Headers
2,50" H-Pipe

Engine:
COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Cam and Lifter Kits
600 cfm Holley Electric Choke Carburetor
Weiand Dual Plane Intake Manifold
MSD Ready to Run Pro-Billet Distributor
MSD Blaster 2
MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor Spark Plug Wire Set
NGK Spurk Plugs
K&N Air Filter
GMB High Performance Water Pumps
Holley Mechanical Fuel Pump
Holley Fuel Pressure Regulator
Edelbrock Aluminum Timing Covers
Aluminum Radiator
Derale High Output Rad Electric Fan
Derale Deluxe Adjustable Controllers with Pipe Threaded Probe
Flex-a-lite Overflow Tank

Suspension/Chassis:
Global West Subframe Connector
Addco 3/4" Rear Sway Bar
Addco 1" Front Sway Bar
620 LB/IN 1" Drop Coil Spring Kit
1" Lowering Block Kit Rear Axle

Factory Options:
289 CID A Code Engine
Disc Front Brake
4 Speed Manual
8" Differantial

May be i have to spend some money to Limited Slip Differentials and 3.25 gear

How long have you run that cam with the stock heads ? The Extreme Energy cams will tend to work the stock rocker studs loose from the heads as they're pressed into the head. Unless some previous owner changed the studs to screw in types, you really need to have this done before you have problems later. As for improving the stock head's flow, just port matching the exhaust sides to the header gaskets will go a long way for very little effort. And adding a set of full roller rockers will also net you some horsepower by freeing up some friction loss in the rocker fulcrums. You should already be close to 300 hp where you're at now. Changing the rear gear ratio to something like 3.50's will do wonders in around town driving.

KaraKedi · Nov 20, 2010

D.Hearne said:
How long have you run that cam with the stock heads ? The Extreme Energy cams will tend to work the stock rocker studs loose from the heads as they're pressed into the head. Unless some previous owner changed the studs to screw in types, you really need to have this done before you have problems later.

Max 500 miles, i ran.
Could you give me some details about problems?
My camshaft is http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-K31-242-3/
And if i need to change studs, you can give me the summitracing item codes, that will be really great for me.

D.Hearne said:
And adding a set of full roller rockers will also net you some horsepower by freeing up some friction loss in the rocker fulcrums.

You can give me the summitracing item codes, that will be really great for me. Some of rocker arms, i have to change my valve cover. If we need to, i change this with tall ones.

D.Hearne said:
Changing the rear gear ratio to something like 3.50's will do wonders in around town driving.

I'd like to install Limited Slip Differentials. There are two option.
One is EATON
Detroit Locker 912A616 - Eaton Detroit Truetrac Differentials - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Other one is AUBURN
Moser Engineering 542059 - Moser Engineering Auburn Pro Series Limited Slip Differentials - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Which one is better?

And 3.25:1 Ratio gear (i dont want to loose my top speed more)
Strange Engineering RS07880325 - Strange Pro Street Ring and Pinion Sets - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Regads,
Musa

65FBE2 · Nov 20, 2010

I believe this thread is getting to the point of what he needs not wants. I like his engine just like it is. I have run these cars "back in the day" and could whipp any Camaro or Chevelle short of the super cars (454's or 440 Sixpack road runners ect...) with the same basic combo in the engine he has. The only differents was the gearing, I ran 3.89's. Today if one wants to make a great Daily Driver but still have power under foot you need just change to a T5 Five speed and rear gear to 3.25-3.70's depending on how much you don't mind the milage drop. Watch what the first gear is in the tranny is though. The World Class trannys have a 3.3 somthing first that is perfect for 3.25's. If you go for a new T5z tranny you will have a 2.95 first and that will work better with 3.50's.. This is still deeper that the 2.78 first that your 4 speed has.

My 2 cents, " leave the engine alone at this point unless it needs a rebuild and spend the money on tranny and gearing. You will just love the car with the T5"

brianj5600 · Nov 20, 2010

If he really wants 350hp he will need a lot more cam or better heads. Even with good heads 350hp might be tough using that cam.

htwheelz67 · Nov 20, 2010

with that cam and good heads 350hp should be no problem, I dont know how he is using that cam with stock heads/springs/rockers, I had 2 studs snap off in my 289 using a cam with .478 lift, usually around .480 lift is max with stock heads.

Which cylinder heads is the best for 289 CID?

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