which heads....

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steel1212

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Jun 24, 2004

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Frankfort, Ky

Sep 20, 2004

#1

• Sep 20, 2004

• #1

I'm thinking of heads and its down to 3: edelbrock performer rpms, afrs, or trick flows. I have the following: 302 bored .060, comp cam 512/512 and 232/232 its called the 280H advertised, performer rpm air gap intake (open to change perhaps to fit cam and heads), hooker comp headers and flowmasters out the back. I would like to get 300 to the rear wheels, thats why I have the aggressive came and would like a good set of heads that would do that out of the box, if possible. I'm also wanting good torque as well. If the afrs or trick flows are the best which ones? Also will the performer rpm be the right intake or will I need a single plane to achieve my goals?

 

Stang_1973

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Jul 13, 2001

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San Antonio, Tx.

Sep 20, 2004

#2

• Sep 20, 2004

• #2

.060 over? Man, that seems like alot. No overheating problems?

 

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steel1212

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Jun 24, 2004

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#3

• Sep 20, 2004

• #3

Not yet I haven't started it The machine shop I took it to, to get it checked out said it looked like it had enough material. I'm also useing a big water pump and radiator as well. The guy who had it before me said it ran fine.

 

NorCal66

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Aug 12, 2003

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Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, VA HOME

Sep 20, 2004

#4

• Sep 20, 2004

• #4

If I had to pick between those 3 (which have been the ones I've been looking at for a while), I'd probably go with the AFRs simply due to their outstanding feedback. I don't think I've ever heard anyone being disappointed with them. I'm not the head expert, hell I haven't even saved enough to buy them for myself, but I think the 165s would be best for your combo.

The intake should be fine, dual planes have better street manners.

 

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steel1212

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Jun 24, 2004

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#5

• Sep 20, 2004

• #5

yeah, this is going to be a street machine but I still would like to get 300 horse to the rear wheels with good torque. Do you think the 165s will be enough heads with the rpm intake and that came to achieve this?

 

66P51GT

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Nov 7, 2003

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Sep 20, 2004

#6

• Sep 20, 2004

• #6

You shouldn't have any problems getting 300 to the wheels with the 165s. The RPM intake is perfect for the heads and cam. The big difference between 185s and 165s is the intake flow numbers (@ .500 lift): 267 vs. 243. Exaust flow at .500 is identical at 185.

I personally prefer a split duration camshaft with extra duration and lift for the exhaust, but I have also successfully run a similar cam that you have. (292* .525) My old 302 screamed with 351w heads.

 

Max Power

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Jul 31, 2003

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#7

• Sep 20, 2004

• #7

Dual pattern cams, IMO, are far less necessary with aftermarket heads. They were used back in the day when factory exhaust ports were undersized compared to the intakes, but I think the modern heads have pretty much addressed that problem.

 

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Credzba

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Jul 11, 2004

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Sep 20, 2004

#8

• Sep 20, 2004

• #8

Only downside to afr heads

I've had mine ordered for almost a month.
AFR tech support said they are 4-6 weeks behind, so expect to wait if you order afr.

The other side of the argument is everyone I talk to says AFR are fantastic heads.

 

69fb00GT

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May 26, 2004

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Sep 20, 2004

#9

• Sep 20, 2004

• #9

Max Power said:

Dual pattern cams, IMO, are far less necessary with aftermarket heads. They were used back in the day when factory exhaust ports were undersized compared to the intakes, but I think the modern heads have pretty much addressed that problem.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

 

66P51GT

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#10

• Sep 20, 2004

• #10

Max Power said:

Dual pattern cams, IMO, are far less necessary with aftermarket heads. They were used back in the day when factory exhaust ports were undersized compared to the intakes, but I think the modern heads have pretty much addressed that problem.

Click to expand...

Good point. I building my 4th motor but it is the first to use aftermarket heads. I'm trying to overcome my old-school mentality.

 

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steel1212

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Jun 24, 2004

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Sep 20, 2004

#11

• Sep 20, 2004

• #11

Ok sorry for the ignorance but a duel pattern would be my cam right 232/232? I didn't know much about them so I asked a buddy of mine and thats what he suggested so thats what I got. I'm confused, I figured if it has a duel pattern 232/232 and with the bigger exhaust ports of the afrs that the heads would perform better than say a 232/242?

 

LMan

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#12

• Sep 20, 2004

• #12

I'll be a slight party pooper here and say that if you dont change your stock gears first, it doesnt really matter which of those heads you get...you are going to be mighty disappointed. You might look at your priorities again.

 

69fb00GT

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May 26, 2004

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Sep 20, 2004

#13

• Sep 20, 2004

• #13

steel1212 said:

Ok sorry for the ignorance but a duel pattern would be my cam right 232/232? I didn't know much about them so I asked a buddy of mine and thats what he suggested so thats what I got. I'm confused, I figured if it has a duel pattern 232/232 and with the bigger exhaust ports of the afrs that the heads would perform better than say a 232/242?

Click to expand...

No, comp's magnum cam selection are single pattern cams. THat 280H cam has 280 deg of duration...seat to seat, and 232 deg of duration @ .050" of valve lift. (assuming stock rocker length)

A dual pattern cam has a different duration between the intake and exhaust side....favoring the exhaust. This was necessary to help the old head designs to "push out" as much exhaust gasses as possible...exhaust scavenging. New technology and head designs have all but eliminated the need for the extra duration on the exhaust side. I believe the tradeoff with a dual pattern cam is the lack of upper rpm power. A dual pattern cam will "die off" faster than a single pattern cam, assuming that the induction and exhaust systems are up to task.

All in all....i'd say you have a nice combination there. However, one last thing...what kind of pistons do you have? (flat tops/domes/dish?)

You'll need an aftermarket converter or stick shift...3.50 or better gears.

 

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steel1212

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Frankfort, Ky

Sep 20, 2004

#14

• Sep 20, 2004

• #14

Thanks for all the help.

I have no idea what pistons are in there. They are not factory cause they are .060 over and they have valve reliefs in the tops but other than that I couldn't tell you.

I have a 5 speed in there and the rear gears are getting changed to probably to 3.55-3.70ish and I'm looking for a good posi for street.

 

brianj5600

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Sep 19, 2003

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Sep 20, 2004

#15

• Sep 20, 2004

• #15

Dual pattern cams obsolete with aftermarket heads? I doubt it! Look at the 185s and the 165s. Same exhaust, but about 10% more intake flow with the 185s. You think they need the same cam? Call a cam company, any of them, and see what they say. Single pattern cams are easy to make, that is why they still sell them.

 

brianj5600

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Sep 19, 2003

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#16

• Sep 20, 2004

• #16

Oh, and get the AFR 185s.

 

66P51GT

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Sep 20, 2004

#17

• Sep 20, 2004

• #17

I have a Crane #2031 dual pattern I am going to try with a set of ported Edelbrock RPMs. It is actually a cam made for a supercharger. I'm using it because it is the only roller cam I have but it is close the numbers I'd be looking for anyway.

Crane 2031 Roller Cam (214/220 @ .050) 276/282 .513 .529 in./ex.

 

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The Dan

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Jul 16, 2003

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Sep 20, 2004

#18

• Sep 20, 2004

• #18

My 65 FB is in the shop as we speak getting a set of AFR 165's put on. I called all over the place because I didn't want to wait 4+ weeks to get them. Finally found a set at All Mustang Performance in Phoenix. If you want a set now, give them a call. They were priced the same as everyone else. Anyways, I'll let you know what I think of the heads in about 4 days. If they're anything like I've read, it should be awesome. See sig for additional add ons.

 

69fb00GT

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May 26, 2004

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Sep 20, 2004

#19

• Sep 20, 2004

• #19

brianj5600 said:

Dual pattern cams obsolete with aftermarket heads? I doubt it! Look at the 185s and the 165s. Same exhaust, but about 10% more intake flow with the 185s. You think they need the same cam? Call a cam company, any of them, and see what they say. Single pattern cams are easy to make, that is why they still sell them.

Click to expand...

I never said they were obsolete. I said that that aren't needed as much with the newer head designs due to port shape/runner lengths/port + valve sizes. What i am saying is that some dual pattern cams will leave some higher rpm hp on the table as compared to a single pattern cam. (again, assuming your intake and exhaust systems are adequate.)

You're comparing AFR 165's to 185's. The comparison HERE was stock heads vs. new aluminum heads.

I agree...get the 185's.

 

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steel1212

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Jun 24, 2004

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Frankfort, Ky

Sep 21, 2004

#20

• Sep 21, 2004

• #20

So am I reading this right? I have the single pattern cam so I should get the 185s? I thought the 185s where suppposted to be for stroker 302s and 351s?

Also will my little 600 cfm holly be enough when I get these heads or should I bump up to a bigger carb? I was thinking along the lines of a 650 mighty demon carb? Would this be to much, not enough? Are these carbs easy to tune? I mean I learned the ropes on my holly but I would like something a little easier to tune.