which heads....

[Max Power]

Nobody said "obsolete", Brian.

 

[D.Hearne]

I'm thinking of heads and its down to 3: edelbrock performer rpms, afrs, or trick flows. I have the following: 302 bored .060, comp cam 512/512 and 232/232 its called the 280H advertised, performer rpm air gap intake (open to change perhaps to fit cam and heads), hooker comp headers and flowmasters out the back. I would like to get 300 to the rear wheels, thats why I have the aggressive came and would like a good set of heads that would do that out of the box, if possible. I'm also wanting good torque as well. If the afrs or trick flows are the best which ones? Also will the performer rpm be the right intake or will I need a single plane to achieve my goals?

Two suggestions---------- check your deck clearance for the pistons you want to run. Many so called flat tops for 302's have .020-.030 deck clearance, not good for getting the 10 to 1 comp ratio you'll need with that cam and aluminum heads. Suggestion # 2 is , If I were you I'd also check out Brodix Heads and Canfield heads before commiting to waitng on AFR's. Both Brodix and Canfield make every bit as good a head as AFR, no waiting either. I'm running Canfields on my 331 and so far, they're fantastic. Had them on a stock 5.0 short block before and they also were superb. With a Vic jr, Holley 650 DP carb, B303 Ford roller with 1.7 rockers, they pushed the 3800 lb Ranger they were in to mid 13's.

 

[brianj5600]

Dual pattern cams, IMO, are far less necessary with aftermarket heads. They were used back in the day when factory exhaust ports were undersized compared to the intakes, but I think the modern heads have pretty much addressed that problem.

Sorry for putting words in your mouth Max. The second sentence made me think "obsolete".
My second choice on the heads would be tftw's. Those do like a little extra on the exhaust. Their own cams show the need for a little exhaust help. You have the right intake, but the cam? It will make nice hp with your current cam, but I am a big fan of dual pattern cams. The valve reliefs may narrow down the choices on the heads too. Tftw's imo are the best heads for stock valve reliefs.
Mr. Hearne makes a good point about deck clearance. What year is your block? Do you know what pistons are in it?

 

[jerry S]

uh oh!

Finally found a set at All Mustang Performance in Phoenix. If you want a set now, give them a call.

Did you notice that AMP gives you no warranty with any parts you buy from them? There was a link here some time back to 1320stangs about how AMP screwed some active military guy. He gave them a working car, they installed new parts, did something wrong in the process and the motor blew while it was in their possession. They gave him back his car in pieces and denied any responsibility whatsoever. The thread had over 300,000 hits, with some customers reporting no problems dealing with AMP but many more saying that they had gotten very poor treatment from the owners. I won't buy from anybody who refuses to offer a warranty. I guess you could go back to AFR if you had a problem, but an ounce of prevention......

 

[steel1212]

I do not know what type of pistons only that they are .060 over and have notches in the tops of them. I'm guessing that they are stock type for a 79 engine just .060 over. This is my first engine build and will definatly not be my last as I've learned so much from it. My next build will either be a 351 if money is tight or 347 stroker if the funds are there.

 

[D.Hearne]

You'd do well to find out what the deck clearance is before ordering heads. If you happen to have flat tops with a -.020-.030 clearance, you definately don't want to get large chambered heads (58 or 64cc is the norm for aftermarket heads ) with those pistons and 64 cc heads, your motor may have all the right pieces to run, but will be down on power due to too low a comp ratio. Do your homework before buying heads, you'll be glad you did later.

 

[Max Power]

Brian, it's interesting to note that most of the Edelbrock Performer packages run dual pattern cams, and they are fairly modern in design. Their cams are meant for their heads.

Even so, the dual pattern isn't as extreme as it used to be in the old days.

I really don't think it is much more expensive, if at all, for cam mfgs to make dual patterns over singles, especially the big boys like Crane and Comp. The equipment they have is expensive, regardless. I don't think Comps Extreme Energy cams cost any more than their modern single pattern cams, but I could be wrong.

 

[coolblue65]

To be honest I don't think you will hit 300 RWHP no matter what head you chose, you can get close, but 300 RWHP is pretty hard to attain with a 302 (thats decently streetable).

This question is almost like asking holley or edelbrock carb!

Either way, you really need to find out what kind of pistons you have before you order anything. if you have flat-tops (even with that small notch) you may not be able run 2" intake valves (that the Edel. RPMs and AFR 185s have)only Trickflows 2" valves work with flat-tops.

I have never heard ANY bad things about the trickflow's, afr's, or even edelbrock's. The flow numbers are pretty close (especially between the 165s and TFs the 185s do have an edge higher up), to me it comes down to a name and a cost, personally I didn't see the benefit of that cost of afr's over the trickflows- I got my TFs for $965 delivered to my door brand new from Summit.

Here is page that list flow#s for a TON of heads.

http://home.isoa.net/~mharrisj/fordhead.html

 

[66P51GT]

Actually, getting 300 to the wheels is pretty straight forward using the Edelbrock RPM package...

With a 15% drivetrain loss you are at 312HP
With a 18% drivetrain loss you are at 293HP

If you make sure you are at a zero deck height or shave the heads and bump the compression a half point, you can sqeeze out some more. A slightly more aggressive cam, mild porting, and you are well above the mark.

 

[steel1212]

Ok so how do I go about finding out what pistons I have? they didn't look doomed or anything when we put them in but did have notches in them. Also how do I find out how high my deck is?

Again thanks for the help. Right now I have those 79 heads with those BIG ol combustion chambers and straw valves

 

[D.Hearne]

Here is page that list flow#s for a TON of heads.

http://home.isoa.net/~mharrisj/fordhead.html

I have a hard time believing some of that info in the chart. For example they listed the exhaust flow for std 289 heads very nearly the same as the 3.8 V6 heads. I have examined the 3.8 heads firsthand and while not being able to flow test them, but just by looking at their exhaust passages, there ain't no way they flow the same as a 289 head on the exhaust. The 3.8 exhaust passage is much larger than the 289 head's passage, you can stick three fingers down into the port and touch the valve stem. No way you'll do that with a 289 head. The intake side is vastly improved too.

 

[Max Power]

I love those Edelbrock dyno charts. They all use 1-7/8s headers.

Where did you get those, Edelbrock?

 

[66P51GT]

I love those Edelbrock dyno charts. They all use 1-7/8s headers.

Where did you get those, Edelbrock?

Yes, the chart is straight from Edelbrock.

 

[coolblue65]

I have a hard time believing some of that info in the chart. For example they listed the exhaust flow for std 289 heads very nearly the same as the 3.8 V6 heads. I have examined the 3.8 heads firsthand and while not being able to flow test them, but just by looking at their exhaust passages, there ain't no way they flow the same as a 289 head on the exhaust. The 3.8 exhaust passage is much larger than the 289 head's passage, you can stick three fingers down into the port and touch the valve stem. No way you'll do that with a 289 head. The intake side is vastly improved too.

D.Hearne- I can't say how accurate that chart is... just something I have came accross. Although comparing it to the manufacturers flow results on their websites the numbers are believable for those at least.

66P51GT- Its straightforward if you have your own engine dyno and engineers to build you a motor in perfect tune. I know that chart well, I have referenced it many many times....I actually followed it with the exception of the Trickflow heads and huge headers....and I do not have 300 RWHP from my 289....maybe if i had 13 more cubic inches.

 

[slackr]

another chart:
http://www.jason.fletcher.net/tech/flowdata/castiron.htm

 

[66P51GT]

66P51GT- Its straightforward if you have your own engine dyno and engineers to build you a motor in perfect tune.

Agreed, but the assembly of the right components is just as important. You can always take the car to a dyno test-n-tune to get the Carb/EFI setup right. You just have to be willing to put in the time if you want to do it yourself.

 

[coolblue65]

Agreed, but the assembly of the right components is just as important. You can always take the car to a dyno test-n-tune to get the Carb/EFI setup right. You just have to be willing to put in the time if you want to do it yourself.

I guess my point is that 300rwhp is about the limit for a naturally aspirated street motor, and to get that you will have to squeeze out every bit of power you can from it; and as you said, you will definately need to have it tuned on a dyno.

 

[brianj5600]

The above chart uses rpm heads.

 

[Great68]

I'll be a slight party pooper here and say that if you dont change your stock gears first, it doesnt really matter which of those heads you get...you are going to be mighty disappointed. You might look at your priorities again.

I disagree. Just before I did my head, cam, intake, carb swap I had 3.55 gears but had to swap them back to the 2.80's because they were worn out.

Anyways, my car still pulls way harder with the motor mods and the 2.80 gear than it did with the stockish motor and the 3.55 gear. The only difference is that now I go faster per RPM and keep some fuel mileage.
When I change my gears again, I'll only be going to a 3.25 gear.