which years were the stronger 351w block?

DarkoStoj · Jan 25, 2006

I always thought it was all 69's and some of the 70's. A guy I know is selling a 74 block, and hes saying the blocks with the higher nickel content went from 69-74.

1320stang · Jan 25, 2006

I believe it's the '69-'74 blocks as well, but I'm not sold on the whole nickel thing. I've been told that an 'X' stands for a high nickel content, but I know of guys that have testing capabilities that have proven there was no high nickel content. This was in FE blocks.

I think they were made with better iron and maybe have thicker main webs.

bnickel · Jan 25, 2006

not sure about the FE's but all SBF's have some nickel content and to be quite honest i'd be really surprised if the FE's didn't have any nickel content. i think your friend is incorrect.

anyway, the early blocks did have more nickel content but i don't think it was enough to make that big of a difference. the strength of the early blocks does come from thicker blocks overall. the bores are thicker, the webs are thicker and basically everyting is thicker. that's why the early blocks weigh about 20-25 lbs more than a later model block.

69gmachine · Jan 25, 2006

There is no difference in nickel content, however there is a big difference in the amount of material in the main webs. At one time I had a complete list of casting numbers and what the running changes were, but it went into bit heaven when my last hard drive crashed. So from my memory, all I can tell you for certain is that the C90E (9.48 dh) and D1AE (9.501 dh) castings are the most desirable. They were cast with bosses for 4 bolt mains and thick main webs. Unfortunately they never received the 4 bolt caps from the factory, but they are easily converted. They weigh about 8-10 lbs more than the D2AE and D4AE blocks that followed. If you look at the underside of them side by side with the later blocks it's obvious how much beefier they are. There was an E3TE or E4TE truck block that came with thick main webs also, but I was never able to get any specs on it for comparison to the C9 and D1 blocks. The C9 blocks were used in '69 and '70 Mustangs, Fairlaines and anything else that got a 351W. The D1 was only used in full size cars in '71 only as the mid size sporty cars got the 351C, and in '72 they cast a new wimpy block, so they are pretty rare.

DarkoStoj · Jan 25, 2006

yea thats going along the lines of what i thought.

So my best bet is to find either a C9 or a D1 block then? Is there any way I would be able to visually identify which block has the thicker main webs(the ones that are convertible to 4 bolt mains)

LUCAFU1 · Jan 25, 2006

I believe 69-71 is the one you want. I have some heads from them, the DO0E (I forgot which is the O and 0). Anyways thats the one.

bnickel · Jan 25, 2006

69gmachine said:
There is no difference in nickel content, however there is a big difference in the amount of material in the main webs. At one time I had a complete list of casting numbers and what the running changes were, but it went into bit heaven when my last hard drive crashed. So from my memory, all I can tell you for certain is that the C90E (9.48 dh) and D1AE (9.501 dh) castings are the most desirable. They were cast with bosses for 4 bolt mains and thick main webs. Unfortunately they never received the 4 bolt caps from the factory, but they are easily converted. They weigh about 8-10 lbs more than the D2AE and D4AE blocks that followed. If you look at the underside of them side by side with the later blocks it's obvious how much beefier they are. There was an E3TE or E4TE truck block that came with thick main webs also, but I was never able to get any specs on it for comparison to the C9 and D1 blocks. The C9 blocks were used in '69 and '70 Mustangs, Fairlaines and anything else that got a 351W. The D1 was only used in full size cars in '71 only as the mid size sporty cars got the 351C, and in '72 they cast a new wimpy block, so they are pretty rare.

you left out the D0OE blocks which are basically identical to the C9OE blocks and even have the same 9.48 deck height. not sure where you got all your info but i believe some of it is incorrect. the D1AE blocks were used all the way up until 74 i have a 73 model windsor with a D1AE block casting and D0OE heads and D2A? crank. this was the original engine out of my great grandmothers 73 galaxie 500 and she was the orginal owner and I know the engine had never been changed.

as for the nickel content there is a pretty big difference in the amount that was used from the late 69 and early 70's blocks to the later blocks. there were also marine/industrial blocks that had the thicker webs as well and these were used all through the 70's and 80's, unfortunately i can't remember the casting numbers though. i'll see if i can find the info on the casting numbers for those marine blocks somewhere and get back to you.

as for the D4AE blocks being thinner than the C9, D0 and D1 blocks there isn't that much difference in them it's the later D6 and D8 and any of the E lettered (80') blocks.

DarkoStoj · Jan 26, 2006

so keep an eye out for blocks with C9, D0, and D1 casting number? How much power can these blocks hold before they let go....assuming the rotating assembely doesn't go first

1320stang · Jan 26, 2006

I've got a '69 block, but for the life of me, I can't find the main caps. I considered either buying a set of used main caps off Ebay (hard to find) or Pro Gram Engineering's billet main caps, the center 3 are 4 bolt, but the whole billet set would be $583.54!!!! And either way, you still have to have it line bored. If I could at least find the front and rear cap, the center 3 PGE caps are $240 which is much more reasonable, but line bore and machine and tap the outer holes for the center caps are still in order.

Clark · Jan 26, 2006

I know there is some debate here and I know I will be disputed but I had to weigh in as well. I don't have any technical backup, but do have some real life experience with the hardness issue. I agree that the thickness is a factor but when I had my 69 351W block bored out it was not the thickness that the machine shop was complaining about. The shop has some good experience and said that the normal boring tool was not able to get through the bores with a good finish and they had to use a different one to compensate for the harder metal.

bnickel · Jan 26, 2006

1320stang said:
I've got a '69 block, but for the life of me, I can't find the main caps. I considered either buying a set of used main caps off Ebay (hard to find) or Pro Gram Engineering's billet main caps, the center 3 are 4 bolt, but the whole billet set would be $583.54!!!! And either way, you still have to have it line bored. If I could at least find the front and rear cap, the center 3 PGE caps are $240 which is much more reasonable, but line bore and machine and tap the outer holes for the center caps are still in order.

if you want stock main caps check with the local machine shops, chances are they will have some from a wasted block or something. it will still need to align bored and honed but a hell of a lot cheaper than aftermarket 4 bolt main caps. honestly i would be more worried about the bores splitting before i would worry about the mains. trust me i have split the bores in 2 windsor blocks and 1 cleveland block running basically stock motors. unless you plan on sleeving the block 4 bolt mains are pretty much a waste of money IMHO.

1320stang · Jan 27, 2006

Hmmm.... my .060 over '65 289 block with no grout has turned 8000 rpm regularly with a '65 cast crank and taken a 3000# car to 11.0s with a Jerico and 5.67 gears w/ 9x30 slicks with no sign of a bore splitting. Maybe I'm not running it hard enough?

bnickel · Jan 27, 2006

1320stang said:
Hmmm.... my .060 over '65 289 block with no grout has turned 8000 rpm regularly with a '65 cast crank and taken a 3000# car to 11.0s with a Jerico and 5.67 gears w/ 9x30 slicks with no sign of a bore splitting. Maybe I'm not running it hard enough?

hmmm, maybe, but i'm just plain hard on engines, i can kill one without even sweating hard. LOL seriously though every blown SBF i've had has split the cylinders either because it was over-revved or because something else let loose, usually a rod. but i've only had one that did any other damage to the block besides cracking the cylinder walls. maybe i just have bad luck with that particular problem, who knows, but i'd still be more worried about the cylinder walls than the main caps, especially on a windsor with those 3.0" mains.

1320stang · Jan 27, 2006

IIRC, there is a company that makes bushings to use a crank with Cleveland mains. It may be PGE. Actually, it's half of a bushing as the main cap is already at the smaller size.

mustangdave · Jan 27, 2006

bnicknel, the rods are very weak stock on the 351W. I have a theory on 351W mains, let me lnow what you think. Due to the larger main journals, they hold more heat and do not like high r.p.m.'s (over 6,000 on a regular basis).

triostang · Jan 27, 2006

i have a block with the x's on it, know what that means?

DarkoStoj · Jan 27, 2006

triostang said:
i have a block with the x's on it, know what that means?

are the X's cast in the lifter valley? Whats the datecode?

triostang · Jan 27, 2006

yeah they are on there, i got it from a fox body guy, and i have noticed other 5.0 blocks where y's while mine were x's

danny clemens · Jan 27, 2006

mustangdave said:
bnicknel, the rods are very weak stock on the 351W. I have a theory on 351W mains, let me lnow what you think. Due to the larger main journals, they hold more heat and do not like high r.p.m.'s (over 6,000 on a regular basis).

There could be something to what you're saying. The crank has a larger OD and therefore is traveling faster on the bearing at the same rpm as an engine with smaller main journals. An engine with a longer stroke is traveling faster on the cylinder wall than a lesser stroked engine running the same rpm. If you have ample oiling though it may not matter. Any ideas what size NASCAR main journals are?

1320stang · Jan 27, 2006

That's not theory, that's fact. The Nascar blocks have the 351c journal size. They also use Honda rod journal sizes.

Think about it, on a spinning round object, the outside turns at a higher speed than 1/2 the diameter, plus the greater surface of the journal would make for more possible friction, hence more heat.

which years were the stronger 351w block?

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