Why do people delete their spoilers? Aren't they functional?

mwdguy said:

Well maybe you can tell me when F1, or NASCAR cars add more wing (increase the angle of the spoiler, thus increasing the downforce) it slows the top speen they can attain down?

I don't know how you can think you can have downforce and decrease drag?

Link me to some scientific articles and then I might believe you.

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then a VW mini bus should have lots of downforce right?
but yet take it against lets say the S7 which is a ton more aerodynamic which makes more downforce though?




adding more wing can make for more downforce yes and does make for more drag

but there is a difference between the idea there and what I am talking about

like adding an airdamn can improve drag by not allowing air under the car YET also helps downforce by again not letting air under the car


the little wing on the back of my car doesn't stick up in the way of the air like a spoiler on a F1 car it sits flat on the rear deck of the car just to redirect it away from the wake this way the airflow is more efficient

sure it will not create as much downforce as a wing on the F1 cars
but still it does show it's part and does make a difference


but I will rephrase what I said
the spoiler on my car is not in truth producing downforce but it does reduce lift which is something most cars do suffer from so while my car might not be putting 1000lbs (just putting a number there) of force on the tires at speed
but reduces the lift from lets say 200lbs of lift down to about 100lbs of lifting force on the tires


and a link for you plus some quotes from the links
http://wings.avkids.com/Book/Sports/instructor/race_car-01.html

The rear deck spoiler is designed to raise the rear stagnation line. In other words, the rear spoiler increases the flow under the body by ensuring that the flow from the upper surface doesn't wrap around the rear of the vehicle (need an illustration). This promotes the production of downforce at the rear of the car. Depending on the car geometry, a rear spoiler can decrease drag by reducing flow separation at the rear window.


The simplest devices available are front air dams and rear spoilers. The flow under a vehicle is disturbed by the various drive train and plumbing components. By reducing the airflow under the vehicle, a front air dam reduces the drag of the vehicle. Also, the pressure immediately behind the air dam is reduced which aids the cooling flow across the radiator. At the same time, the lift is reduced at the front of the car.

a reason why the little pieces in front of each tire on my car help even though this is for open wheel cars if you read the article it still can apply to normal cars
just works to a greater extent on open wheel cars

The tires also create a significant amount of drag for open*wheel race cars. This is due to the separation of the flow behind the tires. Several tricks have been used to decrease this drag. Most of these involve simple plates designed to divert the air around the tire, thereby, limiting the amount of flow separation behind the tire.


http://www.pricethecar.com.my/resources/tips/spoilers.htm

Spoilers are angular and liplike and are attached to or designed into the rear of the car. They can be used to create downforce like a wing, however their primary function is to reduce lift or drag. On hatchbacks a spoiler can create a pool of air ahead of the spoiler that separates the airflow from the rear of the car decreasing lift. It can also steer the airflow cleanly away from the surface of the vehicle, preventing its tendency to remain attached to the car’s surfaces. This can decrease drag and reduce the underbody pressure that contributes to lift.


might be able to find more but it will take a little bit since I think bed is calling me


but take care and hope you learn something from it

but see not at all points does a reducion of lift mean more drag

jadesville said:

you never heard of magic? where you been dude?

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there is no magic in how it works


just some physics

rx7speed said:

The rear deck spoiler is designed to raise the rear stagnation line. In other words, the rear spoiler increases the flow under the body by ensuring that the flow from the upper surface doesn't wrap around the rear of the vehicle (need an illustration). This promotes the production of downforce at the rear of the car. Depending on the car geometry, a rear spoiler can decrease drag by reducing flow separation at the rear window.

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Exactly my point. What they are talking about is not unlike a spoiler on an Outlaw car such as Dan Millens. There is a huge difference between a drag spoiler which is meant to smoothen out the airflow exiting off of the body while creating the least amount of drag possible (not lessening it, just creating less than an F1 style wing)

These spoilers extend past the trunkline but are perfectly level with the trunkline. Whereas downforce with an F1 car is created by air moving UNDER the wing, creating a lower pressure area under the wing (in effect causing a -ve pressure area) because the air velocity is required to speed up to go around the wing.

Two totally different wings acomplishing two different tasks. Both increase drag, only one does it much more than the other.

Now where you are talking about the spoilers on 96+ stangs creating downforce, it has been said many times in this post that the only spoiler on a 96+ car that provides any downforce is on the 00R. Well since it was a Ford Engineer who said that the spoiler placement is that way because that is where it would have to be of any use (which doesn't happen until over 100MPH) and the placement was researched in a wind tunnel, I am going to side with the Ford Engineer and not you.

BTW how do you think by placing absolutely ANYTHING in the air envelope around a car will DECREASE drag? You put ANYTHING into an airstream it will cause some drag.

rx7speed said:

those I would think are functional
and the whole slope on my car is a little different then on yours I'm sure which might
be part of why it works
but like the new ferrari super car
I would think that thing is fairly aerodynamic just wish I had some specs on it
but yet it puts down almost 1750lbs of downforce at 170mph
yet get a VW mini bus going that same speed which is by far less aerodynamic and it would put down a lot less downforce


heck if you look at a lot of cars that are made for high speed a lot of them hardly have anything looking like a wing at all


but to reduce lift doesn't always mean more drag
but wings don't always have to be usefull at 150+ either


heck look at a few high end sports cars
they might have a spoiler but most of them are not very large either
hell some don't even have one like the vette
also they are very aerodynamic YET they are stable at high speeds
with the speeds these guys are achieving using some of the logic here they should be pulling a high drag rather then lower then a lot of other cars

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The spoilers on our cars are not functional.


BTW take a look at a Vette and look at the car from front to rear. It is a wind tunnel designed car. They make wings that are functional for them but they already cut through the air and have a lot of downforce at higher speeds without a spoiler.
All the physics teachers seem to be correct about high pressure , low pressure, lift, and drag, but the stock Mustang spoiler is still not functional.

forpit2000gt said:

The spoilers on our cars are not functional.


BTW take a look at a Vette and look at the car from front to rear. It is a wind tunnel designed car. They make wings that are functional for them but they already cut through the air and have a lot of downforce at higher speeds without a spoiler.
All the physics teachers seem to be correct about high pressure , low pressure, lift, and drag, but the stock Mustang spoiler is still not functional.

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yeah don't remember much about the mustang spoiler as I can't even remember what it looks like off the top of my head
v6 stangs rule this area and almost no GT's
and the GT's around here a lot of times are bare back

mwdguy said:

Exactly my point. What they are talking about is not unlike a spoiler on an Outlaw car such as Dan Millens. There is a huge difference between a drag spoiler which is meant to smoothen out the airflow exiting off of the body while creating the least amount of drag possible (not lessening it, just creating less than an F1 style wing)

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read the info presented they are able to reduce drag as well
if not care to explain why the car has a lower drag coefficient then the cars without the spoiler?
same care same body style

These spoilers extend past the trunkline but are perfectly level with the trunkline. Whereas downforce with an F1 car is created by air moving UNDER the wing, creating a lower pressure area under the wing (in effect causing a -ve pressure area) because the air velocity is required to speed up to go around the wing.

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well aware of how a F1 wing works but that wasn't part of the original thing you quoted of me
it was about my car which is different then a F1 car

Two totally different wings acomplishing two different tasks. Both increase drag, only one does it much more than the other.

read the thing again
should be able to see that the spoiler on the car I own can reduce drag

Now where you are talking about the spoilers on 96+ stangs creating downforce, it has been said many times in this post that the only spoiler on a 96+ car that provides any downforce is on the 00R. Well since it was a Ford Engineer who said that the spoiler placement is that way because that is where it would have to be of any use (which doesn't happen until over 100MPH) and the placement was researched in a wind tunnel, I am going to side with the Ford Engineer and not you.

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haven't said much of anything about the mustang spoilers
being I don't know that much about them
you posted originally about my car doesn't have much to do with a mustang now does it

BTW how do you think by placing absolutely ANYTHING in the air envelope around a car will DECREASE drag? You put ANYTHING into an airstream it will cause some drag.

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I agree that putting things in the way of the air will create drag
but with a object already there by putting devices in spots might direct the air flow over a more managable area or let it exit in a more efficient manner
big point on that is air dams
they put more area in front of the car then having just the front bumper
but they still are able to reduce drag with how it redirects the air around the car rather then let it hit a very bad area of under the car
so by having something in the way of air flow doesn't mean it is going to cause drag all the time

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