Why does ford keep letting GM beat us?

JST4FN · May 15, 2005

pony-inspired said:
THAT JUST PROVES HOW SLOW THE LIGHTENING IS. I mean come on, its freaking supercharged for god's sake, it should do better.

No, Im not talking about sales or looks. Im talking performance- acceleration, handling, etc. Im not sure on which diesel is best ford7.4 or gm 8.1. Diesels aint my thing, their just expensive noisemakers in my book.

Now, line up a late 90's 5.7 chevy against a ford 5.4 and you'll see what I mean. I will admit, ford has some impressive stuff, but having to supercharge a lightening or mustang , just to get it running slightly quicker than gm's N/A stuff is not impressive. Neither is their cheap "F/X" stickers and the such.

And I DO agree the new chevy look sucks but they still outperform ford's stuff.

You are crazy if you think the Lightning is slow, thats just ridiculous !! I'm not even sure why that is in this topic.
Anyway on topic, Ford has done things right. They built a good car for a good price and it has built it's own huge aftermarket. Ford would be stupid to build every Mustang with superchargers, big brakes, suspension components,etc... The aftermarket helps Ford continue to sell cars and the last time I checked there was no Camaro or Firebird.

Thanks Mike

Doc GTO · May 15, 2005

ttown said:
Ford has already competed with an NA 4.6. As soon as the NA 5.4 is put in a Mustang the LS1 is going to be just another car. It's amazing to me a 5.7 can't pull a mid 12's stock. Sounds like some of us are Mag racers and never go to a track.

Clarify for me what N/A stock 4.6 V8 is getting mid 12s stock? I may be lost here but I have seen bone stock LS1 Cameros and Trans Ams run 12.7-12.9s and bone stock LS1 GTOs run 13.1s. LS1 is now replaced with Ls2s for future reference.

Doc GTO · May 15, 2005

70snake said:
05Stangster said:

Hey Meat96, are we havin fun yet?

Quote "You forgot about the 6.8 liter V10. Ill put that up against a chevy 6.0"

And you forgot about the Vortec 8100 V8
(496 cubic inches - that would be a Big Block)
Chevy 8.1 V-8 330 HP, 450 ft/lbs. 10 - 14 mpg.
Ford 6.8 V-10 362HP, 457 ft/lbs. 8 - 10 mpg.
That would be a better match, and I would go against you.

Sorry, but I'm gonna jump ya on this one, I have an 01 F350 6.8L v-10, and I can tell you FOR A FACT it will out pull an 8.1L Chevy. I chained tail to tail with a loud mouth at work who's a diehard Chevy guy, and it was over in seconds. he wont even talk to me, just accuses me of having a modified truck, cause its got a K&N air filter! with the exception of the air filter, my truck is BONE stock... V10, auto, 4.30 gears, SRW 4x4.

Click to expand...

I like the Ford V10 iver the Vortec 8.1 also. I have driven the trucks and RVs with these motors and the V10 seems to have a better power band. I still like the Powerstroke over all the gas motors!

Mr_dcj2001 · May 15, 2005

trent_ky said:
im sick of hearing people comparing vettes to mustangs...youre not talking about the same kind of car...(apples and oranges)

I'm just wondering how many times "apples and oranges" has been used on this site.

Klay · May 16, 2005

Doc GTO said:
Clarify for me what N/A stock 4.6 V8 is getting mid 12s stock? I may be lost here but I have seen bone stock LS1 Cameros and Trans Ams run 12.7-12.9s and bone stock LS1 GTOs run 13.1s. LS1 is now replaced with Ls2s for future reference.

Doc is right, the ls1 and ls2 are good performance engines whether you like gm or not
although i think 4.6 does well too at least compared to the type of cars i've had (all imports)

05Stangster · May 16, 2005

Quote:"... and while we are talking about trucks...the 04+ f150 has no competition outside of the nissan titan period..."

Unfortunately, the Nissan Titan can not even pull a fifth wheel. The suspension, transmission and rear-end are weak. I know for a fact b/c when I upgraded my fifth wheel, there was a guy with a Titan who wanted one as well and had to settle for a trailer. Nissan has some HP, but they are not built for towing and RV (except a trailer).

TrueBlueCajun · May 16, 2005

I agree that you're talking about two COMPLETELY different monsters when comparing Vettes to high end Mustangs. Everything about them is different. You should be comparing Mustangs to GTOs. That's more of your "Apples to Apples" argument. LS1s were excellent engines. N/A 5.7L 360hp from factory was superb. The cars that used these beast were not superb on the otherhand thats why they're no longer made and probably never will be made in the near future. If Ford can sell 3x more Mustangs even though they had almost 100hp less than their rivals tells me something there about the Mustang. People gave up hp for styling. Now what car can REALLY compare to the '05 Mustang..................none. GTO comes in practically one package...LS1. New ones will be LS2. That's it......no other options engine wise. There's no other domestic model that compares to the Mustang in it's class because there's no one out there that has that model base. Tell me one company that has a base V6 model and V8 Model 2-door that puts out over 300hp (V8) and sells for less than $26k MSRP? When you had the Camaro and Firebird models ('02 and older) you had that "Apples to Apples". You had the base V6 and the LS1 V8s that ran head-to-head with the base V6 and GT Mustangs.

Trucks........don't know anything about GM vs Ford trucks.

svtash · May 16, 2005

I think overall I would have to agree with trueblue on this one. But I think this needs to be broken down into how these cars compare. And i dont mean the vette to a mustang. The only car that can be compared to the mustang that is currently made is the GTO. there are many ways to compare them ie preformance, sales, styling, personal preference. So two people might be comparing them in different ways.

As for trucks personally I like ford but I dont hate the chevys. This is pure brand loyalty and preference. Both companies make the best trucks out there. But if Im not mistaken (which im just trying to recall from memory) the ford can handle a larger payload by a little.

Anywho this is a mustang site so why are we talking about trucks. Specially since there are none that can be compared to the stang.

MyBlueOval · May 16, 2005

pony-inspired said:
Ok, I know Gm lost their f-body (for now). But damn that new corvette is awesome and its not much more than a new mustang. I've been told that it will run circles around a new v8 stang. Is that true?

Also, what if gm brings back their f body? Im sure it'll be faster and quicker than our mustang, because it always has been since the earlier 90's. LS series of engines are just amazing at the power output. Also the lt1 camaros outran the same year mustangs? Im lost.

So why cant ford make something to compete with GM and same cost?

Help me out here guys>

Inspired appears to be using stink-bait on his fishing hook. IF GM ever brings back the Camaro line, it will look the same for the next 20 years, dwindle in sales and they'll have to kill it again. Riding in a late model Camaro is like riding a bucking bronco...there's power but certainly no comfort or utility. Check the sales numbers pony-inspired. People vote with their dollars and they LOVE the Mustang not the Camaro. The Camaro is the ugly girl at the bar. She only gets accosted by guys with beer goggles and men who have less than discriminating taste. It was a Camaro owner who came up with that line in "Sideways"...you know the one..."She's two tons of fun. You know, the greatful type" or something like that. Big engine, wide curves, too heavy.

If GM's idea of "creativity" is slapping a big block V-8 into a Grand Am look alike and calling it a GTO well, lets just say I've seen that much creativity in a kindergarten class room.

jfischer · May 16, 2005

MyBlueOval said:
Big engine, wide curves, too heavy.

Too heavy? Check the weight on your 2005 Mustang GT, it's as much of a pig as an F-Body...

SVTdriver · May 16, 2005

TrueBlueCajun said:
GTO comes in practically one package.

I think the grand am is a V6. And it sure looks like a base model GTO.

Doc GTO · May 16, 2005

MyBlueOval said:
If GM's idea of "creativity" is slapping a big block V-8 into a Grand Am look alike and calling it a GTO well, lets just say I've seen that much creativity in a kindergarten class room.

Tell me where I can get a big block GTO??? That would be awsome. So far I can only find the small block 346ci motors or the 365ci motors. . .

As far as Grand Am - I have a Grand Am you can run!

Svtpilot · May 16, 2005

MyBlueOval said:
...
If GM's idea of "creativity" is slapping a big block V-8 into a Grand Am look alike and calling it a GTO well, lets just say I've seen that much creativity in a kindergarten class room.

Thats true. Thats is almost as bad as slapping a big engine and a Hurst Shifter into an otherwise stock 64 Pontiac Tempest and calling it a GTO. Hell except for starting the Muscle Car era, and becoming and instant classic, what did that car achieve?
Back to the matter at hand, namely Mustang's GM rival having more H.P. I guess some of you must be new to Mustangs, because this certainly is nothing new. GM has been out horsepowering the Mustang since the advent of the TPI IROC Z and the Buick Regal Grand National in 1986 & 87. But they have also been out pricing the Mustang by at least 5K sometime as high as 10k. And with a few minor mods the Mustangs could easily beat their more expensive GM competion.
After all the dust has settled which car is still standing? Mustang. I think Ford knows what it is doing.

Doc GTO · May 17, 2005

Svtpilot said:
Thats true. Thats is almost as bad as slapping a big engine and a Hurst Shifter into an otherwise stock 64 Pontiac Tempest and calling it a GTO. Hell except for starting the Muscle Car era, and becoming and instant classic, what did that car achieve?

I like that! Good one

Black2001GT · May 17, 2005

Svtpilot said:
Thats true. Thats is almost as bad as slapping a big engine and a Hurst Shifter into an otherwise stock 64 Pontiac Tempest and calling it a GTO. Hell except for starting the Muscle Car era, and becoming and instant classic, what did that car achieve?
Back to the matter at hand, namely Mustang's GM rival having more H.P. I guess some of you must be new to Mustangs, because this certainly is nothing new. GM has been out horsepowering the Mustang since the advent of the TPI IROC Z and the Buick Regal Grand National in 1986 & 87. But they have also been out pricing the Mustang by at least 5K sometime as high as 10k. And with a few minor mods the Mustangs could easily beat their more expensive GM competion.
After all the dust has settled which car is still standing? Mustang. I think Ford knows what it is doing.

Great post.

I love to talk smack and compare Ford products with GM products all day, but in reality the bottom line is Ford does some things well, Chevy does other things well. As long as Ford and GM keeps compteting, we the consumer will win.

For the Record, I really want a 1987 Buick GNX

05Stangster · May 17, 2005

I agree, great post. I only hope that Ford and Chevy really improve on the quality of our cars and trucks so that more Americans will gladly buy American made vehicles. It would be nice to say "I'll buy an American car because they are dependable, go 250,000 miles with little to no problems etc." The amount of jobs it would create and the effect on the economy would be tremendous. I hope they hurry up before it's too late!

Black2001GT · May 17, 2005

05Stangster said:
I agree, great post. I only hope that Ford and Chevy really improve on the quality of our cars and trucks so that more Americans will gladly buy American made vehicles. It would be nice to say "I'll buy an American car because they are dependable, go 250,000 miles with little to no problems etc." The amount of jobs it would create and the effect on the economy would be tremendous. I hope they hurry up before it's too late!

The first vehicle that I purchased is a 1993 Ford Ranger with a 2.3L 4Banger. The truck has 120,000 miles and has been really reliable. The only repairs that I have done to the truck are: Replaced serpentine and timing belt, went through 3 batteries, changed an 02 Sensor, and replaced the Cat convertor due to fouled spark plugs.

I still drive my Ranger back and forth to work a few times a week. My wife and I have owned a few Ford Vehicles. 99 Explorer, 2001 Expedition Eddie Bauer, 2003 Expedition Eddie Baur and my 2001 Mustang GT. They have all been reliable vehicles. My Mustang has 91,000 miles and has not required any repairs outside of maintenance.

Last month, we traded in the Expedition Eddie Bauer for a 2004 Infinity QX56. The difference in quality of the Infinity and the Expedition are night and day. I know it is unfair to compare a $36,000 truck to a $51,000 truck.

When it comes to the car and truck market, you get what you pay for. I believe Ford and Chevy are making pretty reliable cars and trucks.

05Stangster · May 17, 2005

Black2001GT, I'm glad you've had good luck with your Ford. I had 140,000 on my previous 1989 Chevy truck and had the tranny replaced under warranty, surpentine belt and a couple batteries. I agree, Ford and Chevy have come along way - but the public still portrays their image as way sub-par to imports (and this is still partially true with build quality etc.). It's a sad deal. The imports are killing Ford and Chevy right now. Ford and Chevy dropped approx. 3 - 6% in sales (I don't recall the numbers), Toyota - Nissan etc. are gaining huge numbers like 26 - 30% year over gains. Incredible! Anyhow, God Bless America - and as my 90 year old grandpa says - if you're an American, live in America and earn American dollars - BUY AMERICAN. Thanks for the vent, grandpa's days are numbered and he only buys American, regardless of quality issues.

Meat496 · May 17, 2005

05Stangster said:
Hey Meat96, are we havin fun yet?

Quote "You forgot about the 6.8 liter V10. Ill put that up against a chevy 6.0"

And you forgot about the Vortec 8100 V8
(496 cubic inches - that would be a Big Block)
Chevy 8.1 V-8 330 HP, 450 ft/lbs. 10 - 14 mpg.
Ford 6.8 V-10 362HP, 457 ft/lbs. 8 - 10 mpg.
That would be a better match, and I would go against you.

Have a great Weekend!

HAHAHA, the chevy 8.1 has a 1.3 liter advantage and still has 32 less ponies and 7 less ftlbs than the 6.8 triton how does that ?????

05Stangster · May 17, 2005

Got to love your loyalty! Ha ha!

But -- it's a Ford!

HaHaHa

Why does ford keep letting GM beat us?

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