why get rid of EGR???

1Bdazzstang · May 24, 2005

Ive been seeing alot of people blocking off thier EGR. Why?? Does it add power? I need to know, cuz if its adding power, then Im doing it!! LOL

Stang8URMPRT · May 24, 2005

To delete the EGR, 1.. you need the block plate, 2, you will need a tweecer/chip to turn off the egr function so you don't get the check engine light.

The EGR recirculates unburnt fuel from the exhaust back into the motor. Although you might think this is bad, it actually keeps detonation in check as the exhaust gas being recirculated has a lower temp then the combustion chamber.

Also, this has NO EFFECT on performance as the EGR ONLY works while you're cruising. At wide open throttle, the EGR turns off. So, there is no reason to take it off. It's will just help you save gas.

slowhatch82 · May 24, 2005

most people take it off just for looks, less clutter....

mr.b · May 24, 2005

at part throttle (lean mixtures) combustion temps can get up to 2000+degrees. WHen this happens NOx (nitrogen oxide) emission increase significantly. To help lower the temps. and NOx emissions, exhaust gas is recirculated back into the intake to cool down things. Exhaust is used because it is almost oxygen free (more oxygen would increase the combustion temps. by making the mixture even leaner).

Stang8URMPRT, No unburnt fuel is recirculated back from the exhaust, I would hope you wouldn't be burning that rich!

88 Fox GT · May 24, 2005

EGR improves fuel mileage and doesn't decrease performance at WOT, as it is shut off then. I don't see any reason deleting it unless you want less clutter in the engine compartmet.

cjman15 · May 24, 2005

Ditto.

Stang8URMPRT · May 24, 2005

mr.b said:
Stang8URMPRT, No unburnt fuel is recirculated back from the exhaust, I would hope you wouldn't be burning that rich!

If there was no fuel in your exhaust, there would be no reason for o2 sensors or air/fuel readings. There is always unburnt fuel in your exhaust unless you don't use fuel. lol

SPEED FREAK · May 24, 2005

if you are going to delete it do it properly take off your ntake and block the passages at the heads with a chunk of beer can or something and run a phelonic spacer to maximize your gains dont forget to bypass the cooling lines afterwards.

Mean86GT · May 24, 2005

mine isnt connected simply because when i cleaned up the bay i didnt have a place for a vaccum line for the egr to connect to.

VG30DE · May 24, 2005

Positives:

1. I'm running stock 93 computer with NO EGR and I dont EVER get a check engine light, no added tuning is needed on a 93 down to disconnect the valve as long as you leave the sensor plugged in so the PCM still sees some kind of signal.

2. Stopping EGR flow greatly reduces the temp of the TB, upper plenum, and intake air charge temp, as well as preventing carbon deposits from building up inside the intake runners, which does happen over time.

3. Coolant is no longer needed to run through the EGR spacer since there are no hot gases going through anymore, and this also aids in cooling intake air charge. You can do a coolant bypass with no worries.

So yes, you DO indirectly get more power by stopping EGR flow and doing a coolant bypass simply because of the PCM adding more fuel and timing based on cooler intake charge and the engine recieving more dense air as a result of the colder temp.

Nagatives:
1. Slightly reduced fuel economy due to cooler intake charge.

2. Increased emissions output and may not pass emissions test depending on what state you're in.

You decide whether or not its a good idea.

90mustangGT · May 24, 2005

VG30DE said:
Positives:

1. I'm running stock 93 computer with NO EGR and I dont EVER get a check engine light, no added tuning is needed on a 93 down to disconnect the valve as long as you leave the sensor plugged in so the PCM still sees some kind of signal.

2. Stopping EGR flow greatly reduces the temp of the TB, upper plenum, and intake air charge temp, as well as preventing carbon deposits from building up inside the intake runners, which does happen over time.

3. Coolant is no longer needed to run through the EGR spacer since there are no hot gases going through anymore, and this also aids in cooling intake air charge. You can do a coolant bypass with no worries.

So yes, you DO indirectly get more power by stopping EGR flow and doing a coolant bypass simply because of the PCM adding more fuel and timing based on cooler intake charge and the engine recieving more dense air as a result of the colder temp.

Nagatives:
1. Slightly reduced fuel economy due to cooler intake charge.

2. Increased emissions output and may not pass emissions test depending on what state you're in.

You decide whether or not its a good idea.

Good points. Let me add one more to the positives.

4. Makes the engine more simple, less things to go wrong. Working in a shop, I can positivly say that a majority of issues with cars now is related to the emmisions system, and the EGR (esp. on fords) is usually the cause. A stuck open EGR can make the motor to run real sluggish and even make it miss or stall.

Daily driver or if you live in an emmisions tested area, keep it. Otherwise, it's like A/C IMO, if it works fine, keep it, but if something goes wrong or you have it off anyways, scrap it.

vristang · May 24, 2005

Stang8URMPRT said:
If there was no fuel in your exhaust, there would be no reason for o2 sensors or air/fuel readings. There is always unburnt fuel in your exhaust unless you don't use fuel. lol

This is not entirely true. Yes there is unburned fuel in the exhaust, but the EGR is not an attempt at reducing unburned HC. Your confusion here is very common. The EGRs only purpose is for NOx. It has very little effect on HC or CO. It works by reducing the amount of O2 in the intake charge. The exhaust gas serves as an inert gas which displaces atmospheric O2. With less O2 in the chambers there is less heat produced during combustion. Three things are needed to produce NOx. Nitrogen, Oxygen, and Heat. Reducing any one of the three will have a profound effect on NOx output.
The reason an EGR vehicle will get better fuel economy is that the throttle body will be closer to WOT at any cruising speed. This reduces throttling losses. As the inert exhaust gas displaces the atmospheric charge the throttle will need to be opened in order to produce the same amount of power (whatever is needed to maintain a given speed). There is a great deal of resistance created by the throttle butterfly at part throttle. Yes, opening the throttle results in more fuel, but the throttling losses are reduced enough to still increase efficiency. Think of the difference between breathing through a .25" straw and through a 1" hose. The larger opening will present less resistance.
The routing of EGR through the intake manifold was not Fords best idea. Most likely it was done to improve the mustangs cold start characteristics, and shorten warm up time. It would have been better to route the EGR from the back of the heads.

Stang8URMPRT · May 24, 2005

Wow, thanks for such a long responce in order to tell me I'm right.

JP88 · May 24, 2005

if you remove it and dont do any tuning you run a risk of shortening the life of you motor without any real performance advantage plus you will lose fuel mileage. if you are going to remove it any way you need to richen the fuel mixture a bit or back off of you timing to prevent detonation. If you have an all out racecar i woundnt have an egr valve on it but if you have adaily driven street car like most of us the gains are outweighed by the losses

CrazyCobra · May 24, 2005

Quick point. If you have an emmissions controlled vehicle in Ontario it must first pass a visual inspection. No EGR would be a immediate failure. So mine remains in place.

FiveLtrRiceEatr · May 24, 2005

wow never knew that there that many benefits to removing the EGR. Thanks for filling me in.

mr.b · May 24, 2005

Stang8URMPRT, so why didn't they just call it the gr (gasoline recirculation) valve according to your logic? lol

z9_87 · May 24, 2005

As said above, if you do get rid of it, you need to reprogram the computer. 1 you will have a CE light 2 the computer advances the timing when the egr is open and it can run like crap. What I did was make a little harness out of resistors to tell the computer that the egr is closed, and is always closed. This way no CE light, no added timing, and no $200 reprogram.
Tmoss showed me a diagram of this once and that's how I made it.

Stang8URMPRT · May 24, 2005

mr.b said:
Stang8URMPRT, so why didn't they just call it the gr (gasoline recirculation) valve according to your logic? lol

Well, if it was called that, it'd need an injector in the "GR" plate to function correctly. Don't be mad you got told man. Just live with it and move on.

Michael Yount · May 24, 2005

The other reason egr increases fuel mileage is that with reduced combustion temps, the ecu can pull more fuel (leaner) and add timing advance without fear of detonation. That's why detonation is often a common side effect of a failed egr system, or when the system is removed/rendered inoperable without turning off the egr function in the ecu.

why get rid of EGR???

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