WHY!!!!!!???????????

[Fostang]

Why do people sink ungodly amounts of money into their motors sometims transmissions but want to get used stuff or ask what's the cheapest way to build a rear end.

Seriously.....WHY???

blown, stroked, nitrous..... is what they have.

8" rears with ez lockers is what they have.

ez lockers are crap 8" rears are crap.



Time and time again as I sit at my friends differential shop I see at least 4 people a day come and ask if he has used parts or whats the cheapest thing to do in order to have a posi.

Then when you ask them what they have oh camaro,mustang, etc with an aluminum headed motor that they spent 5K on or more, but here they are complaining about spending $400 on a posi unit.

Damn cheap skates!!

So why do people skimp out?

 

[Stang_1973]

I think its cause they forget or dont realize how crucial the rear is. I want to get posi and a bigger gear in my car and it wasn't until i had investigated a little that I realized that the rear gear is a very important part of your setup.

 

[Hack]

Umm, chat forum? Have a good day.

 

[2bav8]

I think this is better suited for the Chat Forum....
Oh ya, and maybe these guys underestimated how much they were going to spend overall on their project and are looking for a band-aid.

 

[12sec67]

some people don't have the money to do it all at once.an have to budget 1 thing to get the other.

i built my motor 2 1/2 years ago

my tranny lasted another year then upgraded it to an AOD.

then my 4th 8" blew and i'm finally upgrading to a 9".

i would love to have done this all at once but it wasn't realistic for me. i myself knew that the 8" wan't going to hold up that long but i had to go step by step because the cash wasn't there.

to this day i'm still doing things this way. i have been saving for a paint job for about 3 years. everytime i get ready to get it painted something breaks or the fyckin paint guy flaked.

 

[Hack]

The uhh budget thing.. yeah that's me. I'm going to swap in a 351C later this summer for the 6 cylinder in my '70 vert. But I'm not going to the lengths you describe.

I'm going to get the rest of my drivetrain together before I do anything to upgrade the motor. It will be stock until then. Hopefully my C4 and lil 6 cylinder rear end can hold together.

I think people do this because a big rear end isn't sexy. Did I just say that? Anyway, you know what I mean.. 31 spline 9 inch just doesn't have the same effect as a lumpy cam, intake and headers.

 

[dodgestang]

Easy to answer...they start at the front and work their way to the back spending money with no set plan or budget....they get to the flywheel and run out, or they get to the yoke and run out...then they have to start looking for cheap ways to get their investment rolling.

 

[zookeeper]

That's the truth! Very few people start with and plans of what they want out of the finished product. What's the first thing everyone buys? Killer wheels. Next comes the flowmasters, a stereo, a big cam, too big of a carb, some chrome, and so on. Then comes the day they realize they have waaay too much in the car and want to half ass everthing else. I've done it too, so I shouldn't say anything, but I try to learn from my mistakes. Hopefully others will learn from my mistakes also...

 

[StangDreamin']

Reading the last few posts; I have come up with a simple answer why I'm "Still Dreamin' " while the rest of you guys are out there "Doin' ". That '67 coupe that is taunting me from 650' away (original Yuma car - it's seen less rain in its entire lifetime than has fallen on HungryMonkey's cars just since he left Clovis, NM!); but I'm not ready to pick it up. See the motor is shot; actually just one rod is shot - right out the side of the oil pan So that obviously needs to be addressed before I could take her on the road. But that 3-speed is wimpy; the rear axle is a what, a 7.5"??? Let's don't even go into the skinny front steering gear and the teeney little 4-bolt drums all the way around. So she sits, just around the block, picking at my brain; while spiders slowly encase her in thick webbing

Before a put my "Ultimate Road Warrior 393W-EFI" under the hood and light up the streets, there's a lot of other stuff to fix; and I have visions of Mrs. StDr. foregoing Chelle's beloved trout and smacking me with something harder when she discovers that the 10,000th generation of those spiders' offspring are now in our carport doing the same thing that their ancestors did! "I'm sorry it's taking so long, honey. I've got the front suspension, the 9" rear and the brakes done; once the tranny is replaced, I can start working on the motor and then we can drive it!"

Ummm, yeah, that's gonna fly......

I guess I just look at it the wrong way



Still Dreamin'

 

[SadbutTrue]

Heh, I wonder if this is directed at me :x

I can understand both sides. Basically, I'm a big fan of doing things the right way, and have set my mind to making sure my car is ready to recieve a big (relatively) motor before i throw money at a motor. But I can also understand trying to do things on a budget... being a college student means I can't go out and buy Tremec TKO trannies, Dart blocks, full Griggs suspensions etc, even though I really, really want to. And being that it appears I'll be in the military for at least a little while after college, I'll probably have to continue doing things on a budget for a while.

Anyway, fos I hope you're not pissed over all the pms I sent your way. Just didn't hear from ya and I really wanted to make something work so I pushed it I guess. After the first reply I got worried you got shipped off to Vietnam without notifying anyone or something.

 

[Fostang]

Heh, I wonder if this is directed at me :x

I can understand both sides. Basically, I'm a big fan of doing things the right way, and have set my mind to making sure my car is ready to recieve a big (relatively) motor before i throw money at a motor. But I can also understand trying to do things on a budget... being a college student means I can't go out and buy Tremec TKO trannies, Dart blocks, full Griggs suspensions etc, even though I really, really want to. And being that it appears I'll be in the military for at least a little while after college, I'll probably have to continue doing things on a budget for a while.

Anyway, fos I hope you're not pissed over all the pms I sent your way. Just didn't hear from ya and I really wanted to make something work so I pushed it I guess. After the first reply I got worried you got shipped off to Vietnam without notifying anyone or something.

No this isn't directed at you at all. I'll check my pm's right now. But probably won't be able to give you a solid answer right now since I'm on my out.

But again this is far from being directed at you. Just funny how people walked by the booth at the goodguys show asking if we had any used posi's or anything that would lock up the wheels cheap other than a spool.

Basicly they didn't care what went in as long as it worked. One of these gentlemen had an aluminum blocked hot rod.

 

[Fostang]

Ben you now have a pm.

 

[SadbutTrue]

I replied

 

[NoKitten]

Reading the last few posts; I have come up with a simple answer why I'm "Still Dreamin' " while the rest of you guys are out there "Doin' ". That '67 coupe that is taunting me from 650' away (original Yuma car - it's seen less rain in its entire lifetime than has fallen on HungryMonkey's cars just since he left Clovis, NM!); but I'm not ready to pick it up. See the motor is shot; actually just one rod is shot - right out the side of the oil pan So that obviously needs to be addressed before I could take her on the road. But that 3-speed is wimpy; the rear axle is a what, a 7.5"??? Let's don't even go into the skinny front steering gear and the teeney little 4-bolt drums all the way around. So she sits, just around the block, picking at my brain; while spiders slowly encase her in thick webbing

Before a put my "Ultimate Road Warrior 393W-EFI" under the hood and light up the streets, there's a lot of other stuff to fix; and I have visions of Mrs. StDr. foregoing Chelle's beloved trout and smacking me with something harder when she discovers that the 10,000th generation of those spiders' offspring are now in our carport doing the same thing that their ancestors did! "I'm sorry it's taking so long, honey. I've got the front suspension, the 9" rear and the brakes done; once the tranny is replaced, I can start working on the motor and then we can drive it!"

Ummm, yeah, that's gonna fly......

I guess I just look at it the wrong way



Still Dreamin'

Although some of us are lucky and have 9" rears in our vehicles BEFORE we mod them to hell. The Bronco comes with a non-locker 3.55:1 ratio, I believe. Combine that with either an FE or a 385 BBF, and you have monster power, and the ability to get most of it to the ground. But I know that 3.55:1 is way high for a trail rig, so LATER, the front and rear diffs will be upgraded. And probably the 3.55's will find their way into the Cougar or the Granada (Agent Smith).

Since I am also on the college budget, my limited fund make for some creative repairs and hand-me-down parts in my vehicles.

btw: anyone have a motor and CPU for a BW1356 Tcase, or an NP208 T case?

~Critter

 

[Great68]

some people don't have the money to do it all at once.an have to budget 1 thing to get the other.

Exactly.

I know I will upgrade to a 9" some day, but right now I want to at least somewhat enjoy my car while I can. I couldn't stand to have a car in the garage on jackstands in the middle of summer and someone asking "Why aren't you driving it?" and me saying "I gotta wait for funds to get a 9", I'm too afraid my 8" can't handle it".

 

[Hack]

Exactly.

I know I will upgrade to a 9" some day, but right now I want to at least somewhat enjoy my car while I can. I couldn't stand to have a car in the garage on jackstands in the middle of summer and someone asking "Why aren't you driving it?" and me saying "I gotta wait for funds to get a 9", I'm too afraid my 8" can't handle it".

That's where I'm coming from too. I want to enjoy driving the car as much as possible. Although mine's on jackstands right now.

I did let my eagerness get the best of me this year with the junkyard 351C I just bought. I should have waited 2-6 years and got the unibody and top completely together first. As it is, I will be throwing the V8 in and subframe connectors and hoping for the best. I realize it's a little foolish, but it's fun to have a toy that makes you want to do some foolish things.

The thing is, you MUST have the motor to go faster. The other stuff is only protection against breakage. It just isn't sexy.

 

[StangDreamin']

The thing is, you MUST have the motor to go faster. The other stuff is only protection against breakage. It just isn't sexy.

See, that's my point. You're gonna build a Cleveland to go faster in a car that basically can't handle it - or more precisely, you can't handle the car with the "monster motor" in it! That last is not a slam; Jerry Titus' Terlingua Racing '68 had more than just a big motor - it needed the rest of the goodies to be manageable on the track. But hey, you'll be really "sexy" right up until you're smeared all over a bridge abutment or squashed under a semi.


If I put the '67 in my carport (on jackstands); it would sit there for a loooooonnnnggggg time, getting all the parts it needed to be manageable with the stroked roller Windsor. To be honest, I wouldn't have to worry about my kids driving it into a bridge - by the time I got it driveable, they'd all have moved out (even the 8-year-old)! Of course, then my money would be more or less my own (not subject to the kids' needs/wants/projects), and I could spend it on the Stang



Still Dreamin'
(for a long, long, time)

 

[Gummi Bear]

Although some of us are lucky and have 9" rears in our vehicles BEFORE we mod them to hell. The Bronco comes with a non-locker 3.55:1 ratio, I believe. Combine that with either an FE or a 385 BBF, and you have monster power, and the ability to get most of it to the ground. But I know that 3.55:1 is way high for a trail rig, so LATER, the front and rear diffs will be upgraded. And probably the 3.55's will find their way into the Cougar or the Granada (Agent Smith).

Since I am also on the college budget, my limited fund make for some creative repairs and hand-me-down parts in my vehicles.

btw: anyone have a motor and CPU for a BW1356 Tcase, or an NP208 T case?

~Critter

Forget the 1356, it'll give you headaches, the 208 is a more reliable unit.
BTW - what are you putting this t-case in?

Hit up the Pirate 4x4.com for sale forum for parts.

You're right, 3.55 is way too high, that's why I'm stepping up to 4.88's (have the new rear axle ready to drop in, accumulating parts to rebuild the D44)
In the future, I'm also gonna get rid of the 2.46:1 Dana 20 T-case in favor of an AtlasII 4.3:1 case.


The 9" in the Early Bronco was a 28 spline unit, still considerably stronger than the cornball 8", but nowhere near it's full potential for strength. If you want a bombproof unit, you'll need to get one with the big bearing ends, or get a set of big bearing ends for your small bearing. At that point, you have the flexibility to step up to some forged 31 and even 35 spline axles *(you'll never break them with little street tires) For posi, the only ones worth having are FULL spool, Detroit, and ARB air locker. All others are much weaker, and will leave you with a diff full of junk. If y'all are turning some serious torque, it's time to look into a nodular iron 3rd member housing. I know, Al is lighter, and zootier, but also much much weaker.

I want my rig to stay together, handle and stop before it goes fast. I'm pretty happy with my life just like it is, poor planning can bring that to an end quickly.

 

[Fostang]

arb lockers are junk.

 

[Gummi Bear]

arb lockers are junk.

Are we talking about the same ARB?

In my experience of off road vehicles (mud boggers, rock crawlers, good old fashioned redneck fun, etc) I know of only one catastrophic failure of an ARB. Folks run out of air, or let them get contaminated and they fail due to the owners negligence, but they are pretty darn strong.

If your disliking for the ARB is due to it's being air actuated, there are cable kits available to change it over to that. Any locking differential will require some degree of your attention. Regular maintenance, fluid changes, and an occasional inspection is a good idea to keep one alive for a good long time.


Putting one (or anything for that matter) in an 8" is like putting a hat on a pig, it may fit, but it sure is silly.



Sinking any amount of money in such a twerpy axle if you are talking about big torque numbers is just foolhardy. I see the same idiocy in the Heep crowd in wanting to build up a 'super 35' Dana 35 rear axle. Comparable to the 8", it just won't cut it with that much torque being applied. You're throwing away your money.