Will 2 cars with the same quarter mile be equally fast?

Pokageek · Mar 20, 2007

This may sound like a dumb question but let's say KC's car for example..He was an expert quarter miler and his car ran 12.0. Take Low5.0 that ran a 12.2 spinning. If they both slammed down the gas at 50mph, who would win?

Or even an ls1 running 12's..would it pull away from KC's car? Is quarter mile a true test I mean? I am guessing that a good QM does not equal good all around driveability or power. It is just one measure. Like if you were to say that your car runs 12's but it may get beat on a roll by another car not as fast in QM?

The Green GT · Mar 20, 2007

If they are the same mod for mod, then they might come out the same if the drivers are equal. But different gearing will play a part.

1TallMF · Mar 20, 2007

If one of the cars had a higher 60' time but faster trap speed than the other guy with the same E.T., I'd say he'd win the 50mph-roll since its more about top-end pull.

Therian · Mar 20, 2007

this is the exact reason why people race from a stop, and from a roll.

Engines with plenty of torque down low, will do quite well off the line (such as our cars) however, engines which like to rev, and pull high hp through 7000RPM will do much better from a roll (take for an example the LS1/6/7)

1slow95 · Mar 20, 2007

When going from a roll you need to look more at trap speed than E.T. I trap around 120mph and I think Paul is around 108-110? From a 50mph roll I think I would win. If it was from a lower speed where traction would be a concern, that would be close for a while.

Therian · Mar 20, 2007

Low-5.0 said:
If it was from a lower speed where traction would be a concern, that would be close for a while.

until you win

Labora · Mar 20, 2007

MPH wins roll on races. Example one car does a 14.0@103 mph with 2.4 60ft. vs a car that runs 14.0@96 with a 1.9 60ft. The 1st car getting it's ET on the 2nd half of the track and the other is getting it's ET from the first half of the track, from a roll the 1st car will simply walk away from the other. (given similar weight and gearing)

Pokageek · Mar 20, 2007

Wow, this is pretty cool. Thanks for the explanations guys. It explains the definition of power to me.

SVT32VDOHC · Mar 20, 2007

Quarter mile has always been a TRUE TEST for drag racing. Many drag racers, hate street racing, or racing off of a roll. I like it all, sometimes you can't go from a dead dig, so I settle from a roll sometimes.

gcomfx.com · Mar 20, 2007

This is the exact reason when looking at "improvement" for track times, we ask for the FULL timeslip. That "other" information is on there for a reason. It's very valuable.

4Jenna · Mar 20, 2007

Ricers

blksn955.o · Mar 20, 2007

It comes down to were the car makes it power in the rpm band per combos ran and a TON of other things.

rule #1 anything can happen.

I have seen my buddies 80T/A with a fairly cheap but well put together B.O.P 400 (around 3k in the whole motor) that ran at the time 12.8 at 107 (w/carb issues) from a slow 25-30roll take out a stroked LT1 (383) that ran a 12.1-12.2 at 114 and my buddies car was several car lengths ahead and the LT1 didnt get within 1 - 1/2 car untill well after the 1/4. They ended up running several times with the same outcome no matter what mph start. NO one thought that was going to be the outcome.

Black Stampede · Mar 21, 2007

This is why to me at least, trap speed is what really tells how fast the car is. That is why when I decide what a car's potential is I look at the trap speed and how fast they SHOULD be able to run given that speed given they have a good 60 ft time. Since you were referring to a roll race, the higher trap speed car will be the winner hands down.

Black95GTS · Mar 21, 2007

Are you telling me that a motor that produces peak power from say 4000 to 5000 rpms cares how fast the car is going? As if the car goes... well the speedo reads 45mph, I'll up the HP by 60 now?

Lets take the classic stang vs. LS1 race. The only time that top end grunt is a factor is from super gay races from a roll, where it takes time for the LS1 to get into its power band. The stang's power band is lower. This means the stang has the advantage at the start, but as soon as the LS1 reaches its power band, it just starts to reel the stang in. This usually happens around 3rd gear. There is nothing magic about the LS1's third gear.

At the track, in a real race, the LS1 stomps on the stang at the beginning, middle, and end of the race because its already in its powerband.

When you see a car that traps high but runs lower ETs, you have to look at traction and gearing. The gearing will put the car in the power band faster and longer, and the traction will plant the power.

So to answer the poster's question, absolutely not. Torque only matters on the street... at the track, its all about building the car for HP and gearing it up accordingly.

Adam

final5-0 · Mar 21, 2007

As usual ... I'll go along with Adam's reasoning

To my way of seeing this issue
I think the Q should be phrased more along the lines of ...................

If two cars run the same et, will or can they feel different on the street

The answer could be ... very different or even ... big time different

Its all about having ... OR ... not having a very efficient 1320 setup

Example A:
Very Light Fox Coupe
Drag suspension & Slicks
Very Skilled Driver
Stick Trans

This setup could go high 11's, low 12's easily with less than 300rwhp

Example B:
Blown or Turbo h/c/i 94-95 Vert
Stock suspension
Street Tires

This high hp setup could also trip the lights at the above ET's

Now drive each one around town
and
think about which one is gonna "FEEL" faster

Simply put ... B is gonna produce WAY more torque for the winner

To me ... It all boils down to ...........
Your goals/desires and then choosing parts to make em happen

Sounds to me ... Someone has been doing some basic thinking

Grady

Houston94vert · Mar 21, 2007

Black Stampede said:
This is why to me at least, trap speed is what really tells how fast the car is. That is why when I decide what a car's potential is I look at the trap speed and how fast they SHOULD be able to run given that speed given they have a good 60 ft time. Since you were referring to a roll race, the higher trap speed car will be the winner hands down.

Higher mph means you have more power. To me, more power is the winner, and more fun if you ask me.

My 2004 Cobra was a good example of this. I only ran on street tires, not even drag radials, so I wouldn't break anything. Still I had a blast driving it. 11.8 @ 119 mph! To me, that's fast and fun. I know if I actually built the rear end, clutches, gears, and tires, I could probably drop a good .5 second, but to me, it was more fun to drive it home the way it was. My buddy's trans am ran 12.0 @ 112 mph. At the track he would jump out on me, but then I would run him down and pass him. To me that was way more fun!

Pokageek · Mar 21, 2007

This is all good info guys. I am learning that power means different things to different people. BTW blksn955.o, I am guessing that z28 you were speaking of had an auto because they had weird power gaps for some reason.

Grady, that turbo vs N/A example is a good one. I think Paul for one has to be one of the best drivers around! It is quite an acomplishment to get an n/a 302 that weighed as much as that to go FASTER down the QM than some vipers that were made, vettes, and lots of other exotic cars.

Not trying to blow horns but it is pretty amazing. That had me wondering how it would fair from a roll because I remember being astonished by a turbo supra one day that ran a 12.2 and blew everyone away. That thing was soooo fast and tons of HP and here comes along a guy in an n/a heavy vert that can beat him!

Oh, and yes everyones definition of power may be different. I have learned that my definition is more toward streetable fun and not track. I don't mean breaking the law of course... I want something that can do low 12's or better with average driver. Now get someone like KC in it and I bet he would have it doing low 11's, lol.

final5-0 · Mar 21, 2007

Pokageek said:
This is all good info guys. I am learning that power means different things to different people. BTW blksn955.o, I am guessing that z28 you were speaking of had an auto because they had weird power gaps for some reason.

Grady, that turbo vs N/A example is a good one. I think Paul for one has to be one of the best drivers around! It is quite an acomplishment to get an n/a 302 that weighed as much as that to go FASTER down the QM than some vipers that were made, vettes, and lots of other exotic cars.

Not trying to blow horns but it is pretty amazing. That had me wondering how it would fair from a roll because I remember being astonished by a turbo supra one day that ran a 12.2 and blew everyone away. That thing was soooo fast and tons of HP and here comes along a guy in an n/a heavy vert that can beat him!

Oh, and yes everyones definition of power may be different. I have learned that my definition is more toward streetable fun and not track. I don't mean breaking the law of course... I want something that can do low 12's or better with average driver. Now get someone like KC in it and I bet he would have it doing low 11's, lol.

Yes ... Absolutely ... Different peeps can have VERY different ideas about what is "fast" for a Stang

For my current Stang ... I wanted good low and mid range torque
so
I could cruise around town in 4th at say 30mph
and
Just mash the skinny pedal to feel the rush

btw ... That is my main reason for my dislike of mod motors

Sure ... Paul has quick hands and feet

If you look at similar AFR/FTI combos to his that have come down the pipe
in the past few years ... lots of em went down the 1320 in 12.5 to 12.75
and some of them were lighter GT's to boot.

anyway ...
Some focus on 1/4 mile results
Some focus on dyno results

I like the dyno because it removes the human factor that can + or - the
outcome by a great deal when talking 1/4 mile.

Don't get me wrong ... Drag racing is great

I just done already did all that ... got T-Shirts and everything

btw ... Something very similar to all this would be the Question ............

Which is the better blower ... Vortech or KB

Grady

Pokageek · Mar 21, 2007

I have heard KB .....well..because like you, (cause of yer long tubes) I like the low end grunt!

blksn955.o · Mar 21, 2007

Pokageek said:
T BTW blksn955.o, I am guessing that z28 you were speaking of had an auto because they had weird power gaps for some reason.

Both the 80 T/A and the LT1 car were autos running 4.10 or is it still 4.11's for GM's gears...in fact the 80T/A runs the factory th350 that was behind the factory dog 301 but with a B&M verter. That 80T/A also pulled the studs out of that verter.

The T/A is just a monster for a 100% factory rebuilt bottom end that was freshend up in a barn with some 500$ portwork on ram air III or IV heads (the latest ones in mass production, one the IV or V was a limited test head) matched carb intake and ultradyne roller cam picked by the porter. Plus it cannot spin as fast as the upper end flows needing to stop reving at about 5,500 or so due to the weight of the B.O.P. stuff. He put a 165-ish shot on it blow up the cast pistons to get a lighter rotating assem.

Not a single person thought the 80 would out run the LT1 like it did. Just laid out a smackdown. IIRC the LT1 made the comment they were well over 120.

Will 2 cars with the same quarter mile be equally fast?

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