will 4.10's rev to fast in a auto?

xtweakerx · Jun 14, 2007

what do u guys recommand for me the 4.30's then?

all i really plan to do in the future besides gears is intake and tune, possb UD pullies. but not much really just want a simple setup that works for high 12's low 13's on sticky rubber.

I'm currently running M&H Drag Radials but they are about 1 inch taller than stock so right now w/ my 3:55 gears they are really like 3:30's or something and im running just about the same time at the track as if i was running street tires.

With that said i want a bigger gear. Will 4:30's work for me in the long run on the street w/ street tires and at the track w/ my radials or go for 4:10's?

Also any idea of how this will change my shift points at the track in a manual w/ 4.30's.. if i was shifting w/ 3:55's around 5800-5900 rpms, how much higher will it be w/ the new gears? I was going through the traps in 3rd gear around 6000 rpms around 100mph w/ 3:55's..

alright as always thanks guys

Five Oh Brian · Jun 15, 2007

xtweakerx said:
what do u guys recommand for me the 4.30's then?
....Will 4:30's work for me in the long run on the street w/ street tires and at the track w/ my radials or go for 4:10's?

Also any idea of how this will change my shift points at the track in a manual w/ 4.30's.. if i was shifting w/ 3:55's around 5800-5900 rpms, how much higher will it be w/ the new gears? I was going through the traps in 3rd gear around 6000 rpms around 100mph w/ 3:55's...

With your manual trans, you have more overdrive than us automatic guys (.68 vs .71), so go with the 4.30's. You don't need to change your shift rpm's. However, you may want to shift in the 6,200 to 6,500 range to get into peak torque in the next gear. You can easily move the redline up with a handheld tuner (SCT, Diablo, etc.). I used my Diablo tuner to change my redline to 6,800 rpm's and it shifts great in the 6,200 to 6,500 rpm range (there's still power past the factory 6,000 rpm redline, but not past 6,500 rpm's). With 4.30's you'll be using 4th gear to get through the traps.

BlackGT4.6 · Jun 15, 2007

4.10s n.a 3.73s fi

claytucc3 · Jun 16, 2007

Hey bro...let me know how your gears feel after you install them....I need to get a set myself and I am researching the mileage to performace on the lower gears.....clay

xtweakerx · Jun 16, 2007

cool ill talk to ford dealer when i go get my oil change because i was going to have them do the install, wouldn't they change the computer though part of the gear install to change the rpm's?

kooldawg6 · Jun 16, 2007

Five Oh Brian said:
I used my Diablo tuner to change my redline to 6,800 rpm's and it shifts great in the 6,200 to 6,500 rpm range (there's still power past the factory 6,000 rpm redline, but not past 6,500 rpm's).

The SCT tuner did that as well. I know the first time I carried it past 6000 I was like

Five Oh Brian · Jun 16, 2007

xtweakerx said:
cool ill talk to ford dealer when i go get my oil change because i was going to have them do the install, wouldn't they change the computer though part of the gear install to change the rpm's?

I work at a Ford dealership. We have a great service department with excellent mechanics who've been there forever. They installed my 4.30's in my 03 Mach 1 and the 4.10's in my T-Bird, and the 4.10's in my 07 Mustang GT. Unfortunately, they can only adjust the speedo calibration a small fraction of what you need after a gear swap. This means you have to buy a tuner to do it yourself, or have an aftermarket shop burn you a new tune.

Five Oh Brian · Jun 16, 2007

kooldawg6 said:
The SCT tuner did that as well. I know the first time I carried it past 6000 I was like

I originally set my GT's redline to 7,000 rpm's and thought it was awesome on the street (manually shifting my automatic), but the quickest times at the track seem to have been shifting manually at 6,200 to 6,500 rpm's. Not sure about the SCT Tuner, but the Diablo only allows shifts up to 6,200 rpm's in drive (or up to 7,000 rpm's if you shift manually), so I'm guessing that they feel 6,200 rpm's is optimum for performance.

But, yes, there is definitely some power still available past 6,000 rpm's in these 4.6L 3V's.

Just ordered a 3,500 rpm stall converter for my GT last night. Can't wait to get that installed to make this automatic really launch violently at the strip. Also, each shift will be even better as the converter will keep the revs at 3,500 plus instead of dropping way down between shifts to way below peak torque (like a manual trans or stock automatic). If I can keep my car in the 3,500 to 6,500 rpm range for the entire 1/4 mile, I suspect there is a 12.90 timeslip to be had (on drag radials, at least).

kooldawg6 · Jun 18, 2007

I'll be interested in your results and comments on the new stall converter I've read where that alone can drop 1/4 mile ET by 3-4 tenths. I'm curious to how long the tranny will last setup like that however.

xtweakerx · Jun 18, 2007

why cant ford change the tune/computer portion?

I know they have that one upgrade package.

Tune,intake,gears.

so obviously their has to be some kind of tune for the gears.

im going to speak with them about this stuff.

However i would like my gears installed by them but damn then next ill have to buy a tuner from like brenspeed and tell them to make me a custom tune w/ 4.30 gears plus w/e.. $$$$$

Wish i was rich like most of the people on here putting posts up like

"hey i have 6,000 dollars what should i do?" i have to take baby steps and do 1 mod at a time.

Five Oh Brian · Jun 18, 2007

kooldawg6 said:
I'll be interested in your results and comments on the new stall converter I've read where that alone can drop 1/4 mile ET by 3-4 tenths. I'm curious to how long the tranny will last setup like that however.

The worst enemy of a tranny is heat. A high-stall speed means a lot of slip, which creates heat. I ordered a lock-up converter, however, so at cruising speeds it will engage a clutch in the converter to lock it up so it isn't slipping (or creating extra heat). During normal driving, it won't be stalling (slipping) to such a high rpm, so it should be fine long-term.

Every manufacturer I talked to said their stall converters were good for 5-7 tenths in the 1/4 mile. That's a bit optimistic, I'm sure, but I'm running 13.40's with the stock converter on the stock tires, so I'd be happy getting into the low 13's (13.0's would be nice). I'm really on a mission to get to 12.90's, though, without any of the normal bolt ons (CAI, axle-back, etc.). I'm working on raising the efficiency of the driveline to keep the car looking/sounding stock inside and out.

Five Oh Brian · Jun 18, 2007

xtweakerx said:
why cant ford change the tune/computer portion?

I know they have that one upgrade package.

Tune,intake,gears.

so obviously their has to be some kind of tune for the gears.

im going to speak with them about this stuff.

However i would like my gears installed by them but damn then next ill have to buy a tuner from like brenspeed and tell them to make me a custom tune w/ 4.30 gears plus w/e.. $$$$$

Wish i was rich like most of the people on here putting posts up like

"hey i have 6,000 dollars what should i do?" i have to take baby steps and do 1 mod at a time.

Ford has a tune for the 3.73 gears in their Ford Drag Pack. The factory computer can't be tuned at the dealership level for gears beyond that, according to our techs. There is just enough give in the factory computer to adjust for different height tires, but not big gear changes.

You do NOT have to be rich, and I certainly am not rich. I bought my DiabloSport Predator Tuner for $369 online at www.rpmoutlet.com. It was already pre-programmed with several tunes, plus you can customize lots of things yourself for free after that (i.e. gear ratios, tire sizes, speed & rpm limiters, shift points, etc.). I bought the 4.10 gears for $220, and paid $250 in labor for the install, so the gears, install, and tuner set me back $840 total. Not a bunch of money for 30hp, several tenths, and several mph improvement in the 1/4 mile. I did the gears and tuner in October right after I bought this GT brand new. Didn't have a first payment for 45 days, so I had some money to spend with no car payment the first few weeks I owned it. Here it is 8 months later, and I just ordered my next mod ($470 for a 3,500 rpm stall converter after shopping around a lot). I'm figuring about $200 labor to install it. Shouldn't require any tuning, but if it does, I already own the tuner (and it came with a free custom tune offer for later should I need one).

xtweakerx, if I were rich, I would have bought the Shelby GT500 instead of the basic Mustang GT.

StonePony · Jun 18, 2007

The stall speed converter won't affect your 2nd through 5th shifts at all. The lock-up clutch will be engaged after 40 MPH or so.

If you can get a stall converter installed for 200 you are magic.
That install requires transmission removal and re-installation... all for $200 is a bargain. I paid 800 to have my transmission removed and replaced.

kooldawg6 · Jun 18, 2007

Five Oh Brian said:
I'd be happy getting into the low 13's (13.0's would be nice). I'm really on a mission to get to 12.90's, though, without any of the normal bolt ons (CAI, axle-back, etc.). I'm working on raising the efficiency of the driveline to keep the car looking/sounding stock inside and out.

Modular Mustang Racing has a windage tray(<$130)that claims up to 15 HP for stock engine and even more for on modified engines. Wonder if that would be worth it. Freeing up that much HP would be sweet! Also, have you swapped out your driveshaft yet? I've heard that is good for another several tenths reduction being that you can lose upwards of 30 lbs in rotational mass!

Five Oh Brian · Jun 19, 2007

StonePony said:
The stall speed converter won't affect your 2nd through 5th shifts at all. The lock-up clutch will be engaged after 40 MPH or so.

If you can get a stall converter installed for 200 you are magic.
That install requires transmission removal and re-installation... all for $200 is a bargain. I paid 800 to have my transmission removed and replaced.

Good info on the shifts and lock-up - thanks!

I work at a Ford dealership, so I pay a lot less for labor rates than a normal customer would. I've been told 3-4 hours labor for trans R&R, so that should be about $200 for me roughly.

Five Oh Brian · Jun 19, 2007

kooldawg6 said:
Modular Mustang Racing has a windage tray(<$130)that claims up to 15 HP for stock engine and even more for on modified engines. Wonder if that would be worth it. Freeing up that much HP would be sweet! Also, have you swapped out your driveshaft yet? I've heard that is good for another several tenths reduction being that you can lose upwards of 30 lbs in rotational mass!

The one-piece driveshaft is next on my list, but they're expensive, so it may be a couple months before I can talk my wife into more mod money. We have to strike a good balance between modding the Mustang and the house - lol. The windage tray would be great if it keeps the crank from sloshing through the oil so much. I can't imagine freeing up 15hp by that alone, but it still sounds like a worthwhile item to install.

While some people throw lots of money at bolt-on's to get a couple horsepower here and a couple horsepower there, it's interesting how much horsepower we already have that can be free'd up by increasing the driveline efficiency to get more of that horsepower to the ground!

kooldawg6 · Jun 19, 2007

Five Oh Brian said:
While some people throw lots of money at bolt-on's to get a couple horsepower here and a couple horsepower there, it's interesting how much horsepower we already have that can be free'd up by increasing the driveline efficiency to get more of that horsepower to the ground!

TRUE!!!!! UDPs, windage tray, driveshaft and delete plates...I don't see why we couldnt get back close to 10%.
When you do add additional HP, you will see a slightly higher gain from that as you aren't losing as much since you've made your car more power efficient.

Hoboattacker · Jun 20, 2007

Five Oh Brian said:
I originally set my GT's redline to 7,000 rpm's and thought it was awesome on the street (manually shifting my automatic), but the quickest times at the track seem to have been shifting manually at 6,200 to 6,500 rpm's. Not sure about the SCT Tuner, but the Diablo only allows shifts up to 6,200 rpm's in drive (or up to 7,000 rpm's if you shift manually), so I'm guessing that they feel 6,200 rpm's is optimum for performance.

The 05+ valvetrain isn't good enough to go past 6200-6500rpm's stock. That's why they best times are shifting at about 6200. You are right at the end of the powerband and when you shift it puts you right back at the beginning of it.

xtweakerx · Jun 21, 2007

Where are u guys getting your gears installed?

Local speed shops?

The dealer?

Steeda?

kooldawg6 · Jun 21, 2007

xtweakerx said:
Where are u guys getting your gears installed?

Local speed shops?

The dealer?

Steeda?

I went to a speed shop who's specialty is Mustangs/Lightnings and are a sponsor of the Mustang Club of which I'm a member.

will 4.10's rev to fast in a auto?

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mine works really well and can take a fair amount

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mine works really well and can take a fair amount

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mine works really well and can take a fair amount

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mine works really well and can take a fair amount

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mine works really well and can take a fair amount

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