Will ESD kill your EEC????

Mike86Stang · Mar 15, 2004

I'm kind of curious, I notice alot of mustang owner's have this problem during winter months, namely Electro Static Discharge. Seems when it's cool or cold outside I always get an ESD shock from my car when exiting. I'm just curious if this can damage your EEC?

My EEC recently died & looking for possible explainations??? BTW I checked all wiring/grounds ect & all seems to be OK.

TIA
Mike

BlackFox5.0 · Mar 15, 2004

It's very possible. Any circuitry is sensitive to ESD....

Idwitheld-1` · Mar 15, 2004

MSTANG said:
I'm kind of curious, I notice alot of mustang owner's have this problem during winter months, namely Electro Static Discharge. Seems when it's cool or cold outside I always get an ESD shock from my car when exiting. I'm just curious if this can damage your EEC?

My EEC recently died & looking for possible explainations??? BTW I checked all wiring/grounds ect & all seems to be OK.

TIA
Mike

Hi Mustang. There are many possible explinations as to why your EEC recently went to the great EEC graveyard in the sky...
1. Manufacturing defect
2. ESD discharge event
3. Thermal fatigue failure
4. Vibration fatigue failure
5. Component failure on the EEC board.

Automotive electronics is designed to be very reliable and robust. It must survive the harshest environments including thermal and vibration.
My bets are items 5, 4, 3, 2,1 (in that order).

Many modern active semicondustor devices are produced with the human discharge model in mind. This means they use snubber devices to prevent damage to their devices from ESD events. In fact, automotive semiconductor IC's are designed to survive a reverse 2x voltage bias. Imagine connceting 2 (12 volt) batteries in series and then connecting the EEC + and - wire on backwards (24 volts!). But, unfortunately, not all devices in the EEC can withstand that (tantalum caps, electrolytic caps, FET's etc).

As far as the ESD event your the winter is the worst. Atmosphereic moisture levels are low when it gets very cold, this drives up the discharge potential. The only way to protect your car would be to keep it at the same potential as Earth ground. You would have to connect a drag chain to the car to discharge the electron buildup. The problem is in the tires...they insulate you from the earth ground. Then you get into the car on a cold day, rub your ass on synthetic seats, pick up 10,000 volts (or more). Get out of the car, put your foot on the ground and close the door. ZAP! ESD event. Shake your hand vigorously and say a few curse words.

sorry for the ramblings...I'm and Manufacturing Engineer....and rarely get to talk about subjects I know anything about on the board....

tmoss · Mar 15, 2004

They use to sell (may still) carbon impregnated rubber strips that hung from the chassis to the ground to get rid of that. Remember seeing them on "grandpa's" car?

Mstang - so the missing ground on the sensor return wire turned out to be a failed board huh? Take it apart to try and find it?

Mike86Stang · Mar 15, 2004

Idwitheld-1` said:
Hi Mustang. There are many possible explinations as to why your EEC recently went to the great EEC graveyard in the sky...
1. Manufacturing defect
2. ESD discharge event
3. Thermal fatigue failure
4. Vibration fatigue failure
5. Component failure on the EEC board.

Automotive electronics is designed to be very reliable and robust. It must survive the harshest environments including thermal and vibration.
My bets are items 5, 4, 3, 2,1 (in that order).

Many modern active semicondustor devices are produced with the human discharge model in mind. This means they use snubber devices to prevent damage to their devices from ESD events. In fact, automotive semiconductor IC's are designed to survive a reverse 2x voltage bias. Imagine connceting 2 (12 volt) batteries in series and then connecting the EEC + and - wire on backwards (24 volts!). But, unfortunately, not all devices in the EEC can withstand that (tantalum caps, electrolytic caps, FET's etc).

As far as the ESD event your the winter is the worst. Atmosphereic moisture levels are low when it gets very cold, this drives up the discharge potential. The only way to protect your car would be to keep it at the same potential as Earth ground. You would have to connect a drag chain to the car to discharge the electron buildup. The problem is in the tires...they insulate you from the earth ground. Then you get into the car on a cold day, rub your ass on synthetic seats, pick up 10,000 volts (or more). Get out of the car, put your foot on the ground and close the door. ZAP! ESD event. Shake your hand vigorously and say a few curse words.

sorry for the ramblings...I'm and Manufacturing Engineer....and rarely get to talk about subjects I know anything about on the board....

That post was just F***KING awesome I wish more posts were like that

Tom- Yeah I went back through the wiring 1 more time just to be doubly sure
& the ohm's on the wires checked out. All the wires were right were they should be right up to the 60 pin connector. Then I yanked out 1 wire by 1 tightening it(female end) to make sure it got a decent contact..paked it all with dielectric.... still no dice.

I didn't yank it apart b/c it's under warrenty & opening it up would void it. So I just had them order me a new one. If I get the new one & it still doesn't work I'll need a lighter & a few gas cans CARBEQUE

Mike86Stang · Mar 15, 2004

BTW would those ground straps do anything to protect from ESD? I might have to put some on in a in-conspicuous place.... now where's my pocket protecter

tmoss · Mar 15, 2004

Yes they do, that is their whole purpose

tmoss · Mar 15, 2004

Oh this ESD is also what they are warning poeple about while filling their tanks - women are more prone to get back in their car and then bring a spark back to the nozzle and start fires.

IndyBlk5.0 · Mar 15, 2004

Wow very interesting read!!! and LOL to "rub your ass on synthetic seats, pick up 10,000 volts (or more). Get out of the car, put your foot on the ground and close the door. ZAP!" and "CARBEQUE" made my night!!! lol

Idwitheld-1` · Mar 15, 2004

IndyBlk5.0 said:
Wow very interesting read!!! and LOL to "rub your ass on synthetic seats, pick up 10,000 volts (or more). Get out of the car, put your foot on the ground and close the door. ZAP!" and "CARBEQUE" made my night!!! lol

Hey, Indy your car looks awesome! I love the clear markers. I ordered some from 5.0 resto a couple of days ago. I have a black GT as-well. Thanks for the inspiration.

FreeGT · Mar 16, 2004

tmoss said:
Oh this ESD is also what they are warning poeple about while filling their tanks - women are more prone to get back in their car and then bring a spark back to the nozzle and start fires.

Did you hear that on mythbusters?? :OT: That show ROCKS! (Did i say tivo?)

BarnStang · Mar 16, 2004

Some people are more prone to ESD than others. I seem to be in the top ten of people most likly to be electrocuted by their car...so much so that I did some resarch and came up with this site. Enjoy!

http://amasci.com/emotor/zapped.html

Oh yea, touching the door frame with your key works, but not with wool gloves on. The static ran through the wool and blaseted my whole hand! On another ocassion, I failed to grip the single key firmly (death grip recomended) and I nailed the inside of my hand from the other keys on the keyring...

jrichker · Mar 16, 2004

The only two circumstances where ESD would be a concern are:
1.) Your car got struck by lightning - hope you weren't in it when it happened
2.) You took off the cover of the computer, did a little of the "Neutron Dance Shuffle" and then touched something inside on the PC board.

Small chance of any of those things happening, so ESD is not a high prospect.

Mike86Stang · Mar 16, 2004

I seem to be one of those top ten people to.... for some stupid reason I can sit at my desk at work & get a shock from the telephone... i'll hear the static on the line as i'm talking & then THWACK... man that sucks!

Indy glad you liked my Carbeque refrence

jrichker- So i guess ESD would probably NOT have killed my EEC? Must have been a component failure

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