Fox Will This Interdynamics (323) R134a Retrofit Kit Work?

medumdum

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Aug 29, 2015
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Anybody used this
View: http://www.amazon.com/Interdynamics-323-Mileage-R-134a-Retrofit/dp/B0002JMDLI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1440887252&sr=8-5&keywords=r12+conversion+kit&pebp=1440887267736&perid=19RM6D7ZA70XBYNY3Z8A
to convert from r12 to r134a? Saw a nice 5.0 hatch for sale with new upholstery, just needs paint and a recharge, and in this houston heat I need to do the recharge ASAP. It's not that much more than buying r12 and getting it refilled, and seems a lot simpler than the stuff i've seen others do to retrofit r-134a (new compressors, lines, condensers, etc.) and was wondering if even with this that sorta stuff would be needed too. I don't have much experience wrenching, but i can handle something simple like this kit. If this kit will work, then i'll definetly go and buy the fox, and even if it won't, i'll probably still buy it.
 
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Ugh. AC work, it ain't cheap. If it doesn't have any significant leaks, I would just have it topped off with R12. When you swap to R134A, you are going to lose some cooling efficiency. When I worked at Advance, the Dupont man visited, and he swore that you could top off R12 with R134a. I am still dubious. I have heard all kinds of stuff, and the truth is you could probably buy the kit and it would work. I am a little more particular than that. Anytime I do a swap from R12 to 134a, I at least replace the O-rings, the drier, and the orifice tube. Vac it down for an hour to absorb the moisture, and then refill with 134a.

Kurt
 
Just take it down to Firestone or Sears autocenter and ask them to top it off. R12 is hard to come by if you don't have an EPA certificate. It sounds like the crap :poo: move, but it ends up being cheaper. I have some connections I can work when I need this stuff for myself, but for the normal guy on the street, it is about impossible to get.

Kurt
 
I'm going today for a closer look at the car, but the compressor was running and guy said it just needed a refill. Lets say it's completely empty, how much would it cost to refill at a place like sears? Or would it be cheaper to refill at a local A/C place? There's one just down the road from my house.
 
if there is no freon pressure (under about 20 psig) the compressor clutch wont kick on. So if it cycles on and off frequently and air is warm freon/pressure is low, Dont buy a car based on AC. Take it to AC guy (if he has a good rep) for decision on what's not working or what it needs....

You need to focus on the drivetrain, frame, torque boxes, hidden damage and rust
 
You can still buy R12 but you'll be paying $30+ per can for it. Last time I needed it, I bought 2 can off of ebay.

Back about 20 years ago when the government first made the change I bought a case of R12 cans.. When I got out of the game about 12 years ago I gave sold the remaining cans for $5 a can to a buddy. lol Should have bought 1000 cans and held on to them- better retirement plan than a 401k . lol
 
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Back about 20 years ago when the government first made the change I bought a case of R12 cans.. When I got out of the game about 12 years ago I gave sold the remaining cans for $5 a can to a buddy. lol Should have bought 1000 cans and held on to them- better retirement plan than a 401k . lol


You and me both man.
 
I'm going today for a closer look at the car, but the compressor was running and guy said it just needed a refill. Lets say it's completely empty, how much would it cost to refill at a place like sears? Or would it be cheaper to refill at a local A/C place? There's one just down the road from my house.

EVERY guy sellling a car with non working AC says all it needs is freon. Think about it- if all that was needed was freon, then why didn't HE charge it? If he doesn't do that small maintenence task, then he isn't doing any other right? Or, which is most likely the case, there is a larger problem- leak - which could mean a new condensor, evaporator, compressor, etc. That can easily run into several hundred if not $1000 to repair. I would take that off of the price of the car.

Might as well convert the system over to 134- that will run about $300 for parts and labor as long as you don't need a new evaporator,condensor, clutch.
 
Try eBay for some R12, it is running $20-$30 a can. You need 3 each 12 oz. cans and 6-8 oz. of R12 compatible mineral oil. The R12 compatible oil is like $20 a quart when you can find it. You may be able to find a combination can of R12 and oil together which may be cheaper than buying a quart of oil..

It is illegal for a company to sell any refrigerant other than R134 to a person who does not have an EPA 608 or 609 certification. That includes Freeze 12. However, individual sellers like those on eBay and, not affiliated with a store often do not ask for any certification information, they just want prompt payment.

See Overlap between Section 608 and Section 609

| Ozone Layer Protection - Regulatory Programs | US EPA
for more details


R134a Air Conditioner Conversion and recharge instructions


Revised 14-Jul-2013 to add Low Pressure Cutout Switch adjustments for R134 & Freeze 12

Color Legend:
R134 specific items and instructions are in red text
Freeze 12 specific items instructions are in orange text
Note: R12 is available on eBay. Use the Freeze 12 instructions except use the R12 36 oz refrigerant charge with R12 refrigerant
Items and instructions common to both R134 and Freeze 12 are in black text


Tools and materials you will need:

Gauge set for recharging = $20-$120 – check out the pawn shops for a bargain before you pay retail.
See Harbor Freight Tools for an inexpensive gauge set.

image_21674.jpg


Vacuum pump – I use an old refrigerator compressor = $20- $40 at used appliance stores, or go to the Dump and get one for free. Be sure to have some R12 compatible oil handy to keep it lubed up properly.
vacuum-pump1-jpg.44395


O ring seal kit = $8.

Replacement accumulator/dryer assembly with hose $55-$75


Alternative refrigerant – Freeze 12 – it will allow you to skip flushing the system and reuse the original accumulator/dryer under certain conditions:
1.) If the A/C system has not been open to air for more than an hour or so.
2.) Or if it hasn’t out of refrigerant for more than 5-7 days and the system is till sealed up with no open or disconnected lines. You need to be able to hear the hiss when depress the valve core in either one of the service ports. That tells you that there is still pressure in the system, which keeps out moisture and contaminants.
If either of the above is not true, you must replace the accumulator/dryer assembly.

Freeze 12 refrigerant: $15-$16 per 12 Oz can on eBay. Get 3 cans, 2 for the initial charge and 1 spare for a top off charge.
Use R12 compatible mineral oil, 6-8 Oz. This may be difficult to find or expensive (~$20 a quart). Sometimes eBay will have the oil/R12 combination cans, which have about 4 oz. R12 and 2 oz. oil in them. If you go this route, add the R12/oil charge first, then add the cans of R12.
Do not use PAG oil in a Freeze 12 system without flushing it first.

Freeze 12 refrigerant charge= 26-28 Oz plus 6-8 Oz R12 mineral oil on an empty system. A recharge may only require 2-4 OZ of R12 mineral oil if you only replaced a line, hose or seals.


A/C systems that have had a compressor failure must be flushed. Failure to do so will result in the floating trash left behind from the compressor failure destroying the replacement compressor.

R134a = $11-$16 a can – takes 2 cans.

R134a PAG or Ester compatible oil = $7-$12 for an 8 oz bottle .

Pump to force cleaning fluid through the system $20-$50 (may use compressed air to do the same thing).

R134a charging adapter = $13 (I cut mine up to use it with the R12 gauge set that I have had for a long time).

Plastic tools to disconnect refrigerant lines - 1/2" & 5/8" = $4 each.

Flushing agent - Discount Auto Parts has some flushing solvent in a 1 gallon plastic bottle - try that first. Or use Mineral spirits = $4-$5 a gallon, tetrachloroethylene =$5-$10 a gallon, takes 2 gallons of either one.

Miscellaneous hoses and fittings to adapt the flushing pump to the system, and the R134a adapter to the R12 gauge set = $15.


R134 Refrigerant charge is 26-28 Oz plus 6-8 Oz of PAG 100 oil.

R134 Conversion Instructions:
I did a R134a conversion on my 89GT, and used all stock parts. You will need to replace the dryer/receiver (about $75 if you get the one with the hose made as part of the unit), and should replace all of the rubber "O" ring seals as well. You will need to drain all of the oil out of the compressor and replace it with new R134a compatible oil.

R134 instructions (skip this if you use Freeze 12)
Keep in mind that to fulfill the requirements of the EPA, you are required by law to recover any refrigerant that still remains in the system. How (or wither or not) you accomplish this is up to you. Connect the charging gauge hoses to the service ports on the A/C (red gauge = high pressure, blue gauge = low pressure) and open the valves on the gauges to dump the remaining refrigerant (if any) into your "Freon recovery system", whatever it may be. Disconnect the charging gauges since you are finished with them until you are ready to fill the system with R134a. Next comes the nasty part – in order to get all the old oil out of the system, you will need to flush it with special flushing solvent, or mineral spirits (ok) or tetrachloroethylene (better, but may be hard to get). If you leave the old oil in place it will congeal and reduce the heat transfer in the condenser and evaporator (read that it won’t cool good) and possibly damage the compressor.

Disconnect the compressor and remove it from its mount to flush it with cleaning solvent. Pour about a cup of solvent into the suction port and turn the compressor center hub about 10 turns while shaking the compressor to move the solvent around inside the compressor sump. Drain the flushing solvent out and continue to turn the center hub by hand to force out any remaining solvent. Then fill it with oil: add about 6-8 oz of the new oil to the compressor large suction fitting. Turn the compressor center hub about 20 turns as you turn the compressor face up and face down to distribute the new oil inside the compressor. Catch and replace any oil that comes out of the compressor.

Connect the pump (I had an electric sump pump I bought for $20) to the hose from the high-pressure side of the compressor. Alternately, you could use compressed air to force the cleaning fluid through the system. I didn’t like to do this since compressed air has lots of moisture in it, which is death to A/C systems. Pump the cleaning fluid through the system and let it come out the hose that was attached to the old dryer/receiver. I used 2 gallons of mineral spirits and pumped it all through the condenser and evaporator. The expansion valve is located near the firewall in the high-pressure line of the evaporator, and may cause the cleaning fluid to trickle through the lines at a very slow pace. You may want to pump cleaning fluid through the evaporator and condenser separately to speed up the process.


All refrigerant types
Next comes the changing of all the old "O" rings so that the chances for leaks is minimized. The new R134 compatible O rings are green colored, so be sure that the replacement O rings are green. Use the plastic connector tools to separate the lines, place the extended collar part of the tool so that it faces the large part of the connector and push inwards: this expands the spring so that you can pull the tube apart. You may need a helper to push on the tool while you pull on the tubes to separate them. Install the new "O" rings: be sure to coat them with new oil when you put them in. Install the new dryer/receiver, refrigerant service port adapter on the compressor, add about more 4oz of oil to high pressure line and tighten up all the lines. You may have to add more oil when you do a system that has been flushed or new R12 installation. The total oil charge should be 6-8 oz. for all types of refrigerants. Close the hood, start the engine, let everything get warm under the hood, but don’t add the refrigerant or turn the A/C on. Connect the charging gauge hoses to the service ports on the A/C (red gauge = high pressure, blue gauge = low pressure) and open both valves, then connect the center hose to the vacuum pump. The purpose of this exercise is to heat up the system so that when you vacuum it all down (yes, you will need a vacuum pump- mine is an old refrigerator compressor), that all the air, vapor and moisture from the cleaning fluid vaporizes and is removed from the system. Vacuum it down for about 30 minutes, this should give you about 28" of vacuum or more inside the A/C system. I have a vacuum gauge "T" connected into the vacuum pump line so that I can accurately watch the vacuuming process. This is a good time to take a soda and sandwich break since it doesn’t go faster if you watch it.

the R134a service fittings on the system: the red goes on the high side and the blue on the low side. This will help others identify that a R134a conversion has been done on the system.

Typical low pressure side R134 coupling
35-16363S-270x270.jpg


Typical high pressure side R134 coupling
35-16361s-270x270.jpg



Charging instructions for all refrigerant types:
Remove the electrical connector from the dryer/receiver and jumper the two connections inside the wiring harness side of the connector together: this allows the compressor to engage in spite of low pressure/no gas in the system. Close both charging gauge valves, and then disconnect the center hose of the charging gauges from the vacuum pump and connect it to the refrigerant can tapper. Put the refrigerant can in the can tapper and screw it down with the can tapper valve closed, then open the valve. Loosen the hose at the center connection of the charging gauge set until the refrigerant squirts out: this purges the line of air and moisture. The refrigerant is added through the low pressure side of the system, so open the low pressure gauge valve to add the refrigerant. Start the car and take note of the idle speed, then set the idle speed up to about 1200-1500 rpm, and turn the A/C on inside and set the fan speed on high. Watch for the pressure on the low side to drop off as you are filling, and the refrigerant can will get warm and stay warm. This tells you the current can is empty and needs to be changed for a fresh one. Before you disconnect the can, be sure to close the valve on the refrigerant can tapper.

Watch the high side pressure on the charging gages and regulate the adding of gas to keep the high side pressure under 350 psi. You will probably need a fan in front of the car to keep the readings below 350 psi. I had to put the refrigerant can in hot water while I was charging the system with it, or else the can got so cold that it quit flowing. Use caution when you do this so that you don’t get water in the charging adapter when you change the cans.

R12 Pressures when charging is complete
When you have added the 32-36 oz. of gas, the high side will read about 250-300 psi and low side about 28-38 psi. No adjustments need to be made to the low pressure cutout switch.


Freeze 12& R134 Pressures when charging is complete.
When you have added the 24-28 oz. of gas, the high side will read about 250-300 psi and low side about 18-28 psi.


Freeze 12& R134 Low pressure cutout switch adjustment.
The low pressure cutout switches are adjustable. They should be set with the low limit about 18-21 PSI, the stock setting is about 25 PSI. Remove the wiring connector and there is a screw slot in between the connector pins. Turning it clockwise increases the trip pressure where it cuts off and counterclockwise decreases the trip pressure. I believe that each 1/4 turn counterclockwise lowers the cutoff pressure by 1 PSI.


After Charging refrigerant instructions, all refrigerant types
Turn the idle speed back to where it was, turn the A/C off, disconnect the charging gauges, and re-install all the caps on the service ports. Remove the jumper from the low pressure switch harness and plug it back on the switch connectors.

R134 only
Then put the R134a Service Sticker on, secure all the loose wiring on the system and you are done.

The typical sticker looks like this, yours may be different.



41-81359-270x270.jpg

I hope it cools good, mine doesn’t get quite as cold as it used to driving around town.

Thanks go to Arizona Mobile Air, Inc. | Automotive Air Conditioning Parts & Equipment for some of the graphics.
Check out their website for parts and the Auto AC Forum.

The above technical note is for informational purposes only, and the end user is responsible for any damages or injury. The end user bears all responsibility for proper recovery/disposal of any R12 refrigerant.
I have EPA 608 and EPA 609 MVAC certification. And yes, you can shortcut the process, but there are negative factors if you do. Sooner or later, something will cease to function like it should. Shoddy work is a time bomb ticking away, waiting to explode.
 
Well since the compressor was running and not switching on/off it should mean it still has decent amount of freon and just needs a top off no? As far as i know the compressor only kicks on if there is freon. The A/C seemed to work ok to me, the air it was blowing wasn't freezing cold, just cool, but i thought it was just because the car was sitting still and i was only inside for ~20 seconds before popping the hood and taking a look, and the compressor was running. I didn't do a test drive yesterday when i went to go see it, was going to go today to take a test drive and look it over some more (i forgot to check for any frame damage and leaks) but due to unforseen circumstances I wasn't able to go today. Hoping I can get off early from work during the week to go to the dealer since it's on my way home from work anyhow, If it's still there when i go and the frame is ok (knock on wood), i'll make sure to post some pictures :D

Also, if i do need to convert it, I will make sure to at least change the O rings and check for leaks, i see people use some freon mixed with UV dye to pinpoint leaks, is it safe to use and leave the dyed freon in the system if it turns out it isn't leaking? Or would i need to reflush and refill it?
 
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If its at a dealer ask em to put it on a lift, you'll get a good view of the engine, trans, rear axle, basically poinpoint the leaks (which will be there)
You may know all this but.. look at the rad support for damage, arms, steering rack, frame rails, any subframe connectors, torque boxes for tearing or ellongated bolt holes, etc.

AC sounds fixable, get a quote from the AC guy or sears for a ballpark fix/ negotiation dollar
 
If its at a dealer ask em to put it on a lift, you'll get a good view of the engine, trans, rear axle, basically poinpoint the leaks (which will be there)
You may know all this but.. look at the rad support for damage, arms, steering rack, frame rails, any subframe connectors, torque boxes for tearing or ellongated bolt holes, etc.

AC sounds fixable, get a quote from the AC guy or sears for a ballpark fix/ negotiation dollar

Hadn't thought about the first part or the rad support, and I didn't check it too in depth because I was on my way to someplace and saw it, had to pull over and check it out since I was looking for one of these. Hoping I can go soon to look it over and scrutinize it a bit more than "Wow this interior is brand new and the motor runs, but it'll need paint",although that's the main reason i'm liking this one, brand new upholstery in electric blue and silver. Car is painted navy blue with silver stripes, not sure if i'll keep the stripes and change navy to electric blue to match interior or just paint the whole thing electric blue, however that is a diffrent discussion.
 
Well since the compressor was running and not switching on/off it should mean it still has decent amount of freon and just needs a top off no? As far as i know the compressor only kicks on if there is freon. The A/C seemed to work ok to me, the air it was blowing wasn't freezing cold, just cool, but i thought it was just because the car was sitting still and i was only inside for ~20 seconds before popping the hood and taking a look, and the compressor was running. I didn't do a test drive yesterday when i went to go see it, was going to go today to take a test drive and look it over some more (i forgot to check for any frame damage and leaks) but due to unforseen circumstances I wasn't able to go today. Hoping I can get off early from work during the week to go to the dealer since it's on my way home from work anyhow, If it's still there when i go and the frame is ok (knock on wood), i'll make sure to post some pictures :D

Also, if i do need to convert it, I will make sure to at least change the O rings and check for leaks, i see people use some freon mixed with UV dye to pinpoint leaks, is it safe to use and leave the dyed freon in the system if it turns out it isn't leaking? Or would i need to reflush and refill it?

The dye can really gum up the system. If the compressor is kicking on and off, it's just a little low. I would just have it topped off and see how it goes. If you have enough time, you will be able to score some R12 from someone. MP39 works pretty well if you can find that. You can mix that right in with R12. I frequently got that question when I worked the parts counter back in the day. People coming in and saying they had to top off their car with one can of refrigerant once a year and wanting to know what was involved in fixing the leak. The truth is that you are looking at a minimum of $300 to fix a leak, and probably half a day if you do it yourself. Refrigerant is $8/can and takes 5 minutes to top off without getting dirty. Do the math, you can keep topping it off once a year for the next 20 years and it still saves you time and money. Granted R12 is a little more money, but still probably cheaper to keep topping it off than fixing a minor leak.

Kurt
 
Well since the compressor was running and not switching on/off it should mean it still has decent amount of freon and just needs a top off no? As far as i know the compressor only kicks on if there is freon. The A/C seemed to work ok to me, the air it was blowing wasn't freezing cold, just cool, but i thought it was just because the car was sitting still and i was only inside for ~20 seconds before popping the hood and taking a look, and the compressor was running. I didn't do a test drive yesterday when i went to go see it, was going to go today to take a test drive and look it over some more (i forgot to check for any frame damage and leaks) but due to unforseen circumstances I wasn't able to go today. Hoping I can get off early from work during the week to go to the dealer since it's on my way home from work anyhow, If it's still there when i go and the frame is ok (knock on wood), i'll make sure to post some pictures :D

Also, if i do need to convert it, I will make sure to at least change the O rings and check for leaks, i see people use some freon mixed with UV dye to pinpoint leaks, is it safe to use and leave the dyed freon in the system if it turns out it isn't leaking? Or would i need to reflush and refill it?
I have used the leak check dye for years and have not had any problems as long as I followed the directions.

I am currently using a refrigerant called Enviro-Safe. It is a drop in, 100% compatible substitute for R12 and can be used to top off an R12 system. Its available on eBay & Amazon.com. The only drawback is that it is flammable, but so is R134 and gasoline. Cost is $7-$12 for a 12 Oz. can. I have been using it for a year now and have not had any problems.

Another product that I am currently using is AC Pro Super Seal Metal and Rubber A/C Stop Leak Kit (3 oz.) Part No. MRL-3/325 $27.99 at Advanced Auto parts. It seems to be working well and I haven't had any problems. Again the caution is to use only 1 can per system and follow the directions.
 
I have used the leak check dye for years and have not had any problems as long as I followed the directions.

I am currently using a refrigerant called Enviro-Safe. It is a drop in, 100% compatible substitute for R12 and can be used to top off an R12 system. Its available on eBay & Amazon.com. The only drawback is that it is flammable, but so is R134 and gasoline. Cost is $7-$12 for a 12 Oz. can. I have been using it for a year now and have not had any problems.

Another product that I am currently using is AC Pro Super Seal Metal and Rubber A/C Stop Leak Kit (3 oz.) Part No. MRL-3/325 $27.99 at Advanced Auto parts. It seems to be working well and I haven't had any problems. Again the caution is to use only 1 can per system and follow the directions.
So I can just top it off with the envyro-safe? No need to remove the r12? And would it also need some type of oil or is it pre mixed?
 
If its a gas/vapor leak your oil should be fine, it has a tendency to drop to low areas of the system when idle and not leak out is what I understand.