Wont start after it is warm/hot

[Dothang67]

I have been trying to solve this for a week now without good results.

The problem: the car starts fine when it is cold, but after driving it for a while (especially in a sunny day) and then shut it down, the car wont start, you cant hear anything, not even a crank or a click or anything. You have to wait at least half and hour to start it again.
One day I left the car outside all morning and when I tried to leave it didn't start, the engine wasn't even warm, but the interior was somewhat hot. So my dad hot-wire it and it start right away. - Well I don't really know if he completely hot-wire it, because the key was in the ACC position -

I thought it could have been the alarm module which went bad, so I bypass that function but it did the same thing. What do you think is the problem?

I replaced battery like 2 months ago, and the ignition switch like a year ago; my car is a 289, 4-speed, 67 coupe.

 

[enferno]

might as well replace the solenoid

they are cheap.

i have no clue what might cause that though.

 

[Dothang67]

Thats what I will be doing this week, but could the solenoid cause that problem?

someone with another idea? im getting frustrated, I hate intermittent problems like this one.

 

[enferno]

perhaps the heat is making the relay in the noid act like a reed switch or something weird?

it's so cheap, why not? i've never heard of anything doing that really.

 

[Rusty67]

I have been trying to solve this for a week now without good results.

The problem: the car starts fine when it is cold, but after driving it for a while (especially in a sunny day) and then shut it down, the car wont start, you cant hear anything, not even a crank or a click or anything. You have to wait at least half and hour to start it again.
One day I left the car outside all morning and when I tried to leave it didn't start, the engine wasn't even warm, but the interior was somewhat hot. So my dad hot-wire it and it start right away. - Well I don't really know if he completely hot-wire it, because the key was in the ACC position -

I thought it could have been the alarm module which went bad, so I bypass that function but it did the same thing. What do you think is the problem?

I replaced battery like 2 months ago, and the ignition switch like a year ago; my car is a 289, 4-speed, 67 coupe.

When you say he hot wired it, did he just jump the S terminal to the + on the starter motor relay ? If he did and that is what worked then the starter motor relay is not your problem because the ignition basically sends voltage to that terminal which would cause the same result as just jumpering it over.

You need to find out what your dad did to make this work. Let us know.

Do you have a multimeter ?

might as well replace the solenoid

they are cheap.

i have no clue what might cause that though.

NO. Throwing money at parts for no reason is stupid.

 

[D.Hearne]

Change the solenoid switch. They don't last forever. Check all wire terminals. Hot starters are also a problem. The field coils are the culprit here, they rarely get changed in rebuilds.

 

[57fairlane]

did it used to click?

 

[Tim65GT]

Auto or Std Transmission?

Neutral Safety Switch?

 

[Dothang67]

When you say he hot wired it, did he just jump the S terminal to the + on the starter motor relay ? If he did and that is what worked then the starter motor relay is not your problem because the ignition basically sends voltage to that terminal which would cause the same result as just jumpering it over.

You need to find out what your dad did to make this work. Let us know.

Do you have a multimeter ?

He just jump the B+ to the S terminal on the solenoid. As I said before, the key was in the ACC position, because I think we tried without the key and it didnt worked. But saturday night the stang did the same thing and when I tried to do the same (I was kinda far from my house) it didnt worked, but I dont know exactly if I do it correctly. Yes, I have a multimeter.

did it used to click?

no, it never clicks or does any other sound when I try to start it.

Auto or Std Transmission?

Neutral Safety Switch?

its a standard transmission, i really dont know if my car has a neutral safety switch, is that the switch that activates the reverse lights? if it is, then I dont have one or it doesnt works.

 

[Rusty67]

Manual trans cars don't have a neutral safety switch. Newer cars have a clutch switch that tells the ECU if the clutch is depressed when you try to start the car.

Next time this happens check the voltage where the cable comes off of the soloid and goes to the starter while someone tries to crank the car. That should tell you if the solinoid is bad or not.

 

[Dothang67]

Next time this happens check the voltage where the cable comes off of the soloid and goes to the starter while someone tries to crank the car. That should tell you if the solinoid is bad or not.

Which two terminals are you referring to?

 

[Rusty67]

Next time this happens check the voltage where the cable comes off of the soloid and goes to the starter while someone tries to crank the car. That should tell you if the solinoid is bad or not.

Which two terminals are you referring to?

I don't seem to recall mentioning 2 terminals....

What I'm saying is that if the car isn't starting you can check to see if voltage is comming out of the relay. Set your multimeter up and have someone atempt to crank the car even tho you know it wont start. Put the multimeter onto the terminal that the big cable that goes to the starter is atached to and see what the voltage readout is. With this value, you should be able to figure out if the relay is bad. If it is puting out the correct voltage, then most likely it is not the starter motor relay.

 

[Tim65GT]

If the car cranks with B+ to the S terminal on the solenoid, the problem is the voltage not coming from the Ignition switch. On a std trans car, there's no neutral safety switch, so I'd start checking at the Ign sw and wire (red/blue IIRC)

 

[Dothang67]

I spent most of the day trying to make the problem arise.. but it didn't! I went to do some shores I had and it didn't fail, I let it sitting in the sun a few hours and it started right away.. he is messing with me

I will keep you posted whenever he decides to fail and I get a chance to check the voltage.

 

[MitchGT]

Do you have long tube headers? They can get real close to the starter and overheat it. The hotter electronics get the more resistance they have. If the starter gets hot enough, it won't even crank over. I had that problem before. It was intermittant, and drove me nuts. They sell heat reflective blankets for starters that are pretty cheap, and work well ( not pretty though, but how often do you look at your starter?). Ceramic coated headers also help a bit too.

 

[67FBack]

Manual trans cars don't have a neutral safety switch. Newer cars have a clutch switch that tells the ECU if the clutch is depressed when you try to start the car.

Next time this happens check the voltage where the cable comes off of the soloid and goes to the starter while someone tries to crank the car. That should tell you if the solinoid is bad or not.

My manual trans has a neutral safety switch.

 

[Rusty67]

Maybe it does, and if it does it was added by someone. Manual trans cars did not have them from the factory, the wire for the neutral safety was looped back into the connector at the other end where the reverse lights plug in.

 

[Tim65GT]

Quote by MitchGT:

Do you have long tube headers? They can get real close to the starter and overheat it. The hotter electronics get the more resistance they have. If the starter gets hot enough, it won't even crank over. I had that problem before. It was intermittant, and drove me nuts. They sell heat reflective blankets for starters that are pretty cheap, and work well ( not pretty though, but how often do you look at your starter?). Ceramic coated headers also help a bit too.

Starter heat soak is usually related to starters that have the solenoids mounted directly on the starter. Our fender mounted solenoids would still click, even if the starter windings were melted.

He says there is nothing when he turns the key and his dad:

He just jump the B+ to the S terminal on the solenoid.

That means the solenoid and starter are ok.

I would check the Ign switch and any previous wiring done to the red/blu wire to the solenoid (Alarm, Kill switch). I don't know how heat would affect this though, unless it's just coincidence. He did say it was intermittent.

 

[Rusty67]

The reason I'm saying to check for voltage at the starter power terminal is that the soliniod could have an intermitent problem as well. Just something to check to make sure. I agree with what you are saying, the problem is most likely elsewhere from what he is describing.

 

[mo'factor]

problem starting

I had this exact same problem with a '76 Chevy Camaro. It had long tube headers that ran real close to the floor board. On long trips you could actually burn your foot driving. Any way, it would take spells of not starting. It would not click or anything. It was the ignition switch. The problem is the ignition switch was on the bottom of the steering column in that car. Our Fords are different.