Won't stay running!!!!!!

[iLkYsPoNy]

Hey guys I have 1992 GT and I'm having some troubles. I just installed the TFS Track Heat kit with the Stage 2 cam. It also has 24lb injectors, 75mm MAF ( summit brand calibrated for 24lb injectors ), 75mm BBK T-body, no a/c , no smog, etc. It will start but won't stay running, almost like it has a vacuum leak but there isn't any. It smells likes it running very rich but it's bogging down like through the air cleaner and t-body. The guy I had put it on ( owner of the 'Deere John' convert from MMFF couple months ago ) said it's because it needs a tune before it will run. But I have never heard of this problem from anyone else with the kit.


Any ideas besides a tune? Atleast something to maybe get it running to get it to the dyno shop?


On a side note... I put on the Ford Racing A/C delete and a alternator bracket to eliminate the tensioner. What size belt will I need?

 

[86bluecobra]

perhaps advancing the timing would help a little. Or even trying to get it running with the spout connector out and advancing the timing by hand.

 

[iLkYsPoNy]

Tried that... I'm up in arms, I guess I gotta get her tuned ASAP. Any ideas on my belt size? Surely someone has this setup!!!

 

[jrichker]

Wiht a Mass Air car like yours the engine should run very good without any tune other than stock. Mass air systems are very accomodating of modifications like heads, manifolds, and cams.

Want kind of vacuum are you pulling? A vacuum gauge is the only way to determine if the vacuum is good. Are the vavles properly adjusted? Trick Flow heads use different pushrod lenghts from stock engines. Are you sure the pushrods are the right length?

Dump the codes and see what the computer says is wrong…Codes may be present in the computer even if the Check Engine light isn’t on.

Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great.
See http://www.troublecodes.net/Ford/
OR
See http://www.mustangworks.com/articles/electronics/eec-iv_codes.html

IF your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see http://www.actron.com/product_detail.php?pid=16153 for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is less than $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-7208-equus-digital-ford-code-reader-3145.aspx– It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.

 

[iLkYsPoNy]

With a Mass Air car like yours the engine should run very good without any tune other than stock. Mass air systems are very accomodating of modifications like heads, manifolds, and cams.

Want kind of vacuum are you pulling? A vacuum gauge is the only way to determine if the vacuum is good. Are the vavles properly adjusted? Trick Flow heads use different pushrod lenghts from stock engines. Are you sure the pushrods are the right length?

Well, I don't know what the vacuum guage said but at lunch time I will call my mechanic and ask him.

I sure hope the valves are adjusted properly? If not, does that mean the head has to come back off?!

The pushrods are the whatever length came with the TrackHeat kit.

So you're getting at that, even with a tune, my car still may not run right?!

 

[jrichker]

Ask your mechanic? I hope you did not buy an older, modified car and need someone else to fix it. You will be broke and ready to sell the car quickly unless you have the mechanical skills needed to keep it running. Otherwise it will be prohibitively expensive to own.

A different tune will not help whatever problems you are having now. Many cars will run the same setup and not need any kind of special tuning. Find and fix the current problem and the car will run good without any special tuning.

 

[iLkYsPoNy]

Yeah I have to ask my mechanic... ya know... the guy who did all the work

It was stock up until last Friday. So now it's been modified and won't run.

 

[iLkYsPoNy]

Jrichker.... you said mass air will accomodate the changes but...

I am no longer running the stock MAF sensor. I switched to a 75mm MAF from Summit and it's calibrated for 24lb injectors. Will that make a difference? Or were you saying mass air flow in general will accept my setup?

Also, the Stage 2 cam is pretty radical in comparison to stock, would that have a lot to do with it?

You mentioned the valves could not be adjusted correctly, could you elaborate more?

What kind of vacuum spectrum should I be okay in? Will it be hard to pull a good reading with the engine not able to sustain idle? We were able to keep it running but that was like at 3k rpms....

 

[jrichker]

Jrichker.... you said mass air will accomodate the changes but...

I am no longer running the stock MAF sensor. I switched to a 75mm MAF from Summit and it's calibrated for 24lb injectors. Will that make a difference? Or were you saying mass air flow in general will accept my setup?

Also, the Stage 2 cam is pretty radical in comparison to stock, would that have a lot to do with it?

You mentioned the valves could not be adjusted correctly, could you elaborate more?

What kind of vacuum spectrum should I be okay in? Will it be hard to pull a good reading with the engine not able to sustain idle? We were able to keep it running but that was like at 3k rpms....

See http://www.trickflow.com/product/twisted_wedge/info_pages/twiswedge_inst_frame.htm for the trick flow valve adjustment and pushrod length checking proceedure.

The aftermarket 24 lb MAF should not require any changes in the tune if it is working properly. It should run the 24 lb injectors without any extra work.

Mass air cars have broad adaptablity, and your setup should run OK without a custom tune. If you want to wring out every last bit of HP, a custom tune is a good idea.

Until you can get it to run steady at 1200 RPM, a vacuum spec will not be meaningful or helpful.

 

[iLkYsPoNy]

I talked to the people at the dyno shop ( CRT Performance www.crt-performance.com ) and they said they have had NUMEROUS TFS kits that needed tunes when they're done. They also said that someone who used to work for them is now running the TFS division of Summit Racing and also said that they're working on putting a disclaimer into place that most of these need tunes done when they're done to the extent that I did mine.



Who knew?

 

[jrichker]

If the car will not run below 3000 RPM you have mechanical problems that a dyno tune will not fix. Even the most radical cam and head combination will run at 1000-1200 RPM. It may not run smoothly, but it will run in a steady manner.

Check the valve and pushrod setup using the Trick Flow instructions. Once you have the valves and pushrods setup according to Trick Flow's instructions, look for vacuum leaks and dump the codes. Only afer you have cleared all the mechanical problems and codes consider a custom dyno tune.

 

[iLkYsPoNy]

Update:


Changed out the MAF and went back to stock. Manages to stay running, sometimes will idle fine @900-1000. Other times it will surge from 200-2000 rpms. I was finally able to drive it home and park it. Still running pig rich and bucks anytime the gas is pushed on ( due to running so rich ). Still gonna need a tune before it's gonna run right. Vacuum is fine, valves are fine. Dyno here I come!