worth swapping a fox cobra motor for my 5.0?

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

About aluminum heads.....lets say we go and buy some typical Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads.....definately no race head but much better than a GT40P head for sure....pair those heads against the P heads on two exactly identical engines, and how much faster do you really think the Edels are going to get you? 30hp more maybe? 50? How much faster will 50hp get you? How about that you just laid down twice as much for just a set of heads than i can spend for two complete Explorer engines?

Now, i'm definately not saying that P heads are better than aluminum, but i am saying that unless you spend 1200 or more for aluminum heads that are seriously going to flow, then you're wasting your money in a sense, because you could be running just as fast with a cheap junkyard motor with a cam in it.

Oh, and the "Cobra cam" is just a '94 Tbird cam....and as stated, it's a POS.

 

[jons88gt]

brake and suspension upgrades are all things that are happening at the same time. this thread was just about the engine. I do agree with suspension and brake upgrades are needed.
I kind of figured the cost of buying a new engine and then getting it installed would be less cost effective than upgrading my current engine.
as far as the engine goes. what should I upgrade before I put a supercharger on there?
what im doing right now is mass air and everything to do with the intake. its probably going to be next winter when the supercharger goes on. right now my wedding is coming first for big expenses.

Jon

 

[GTOreturns]

The first Cobra made was in 1993.In 93 Ford switched to Hypter...... pistons.Not very friendly with boost.They can be made safe for up to 8lbs of boost but any higher and you will shatter the pistons.Use you original motor.They have forged pistons.Forged pistons are boost friendly.

 

[90_Red_LX]

About aluminum heads.....lets say we go and buy some typical Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads.....definately no race head but much better than a GT40P head for sure....pair those heads against the P heads on two exactly identical engines, and how much faster do you really think the Edels are going to get you? 30hp more maybe? 50? How much faster will 50hp get you? How about that you just laid down twice as much for just a set of heads than i can spend for two complete Explorer engines?

Now, i'm definately not saying that P heads are better than aluminum, but i am saying that unless you spend 1200 or more for aluminum heads that are seriously going to flow, then you're wasting your money in a sense, because you could be running just as fast with a cheap junkyard motor with a cam in it.

Oh, and the "Cobra cam" is just a '94 Tbird cam....and as stated, it's a POS.

So your saying I should sell my AFR's for gt40ps because they can just as easily get me mid-high 12's without any work nonesoever other than cleanup, putting in new springs, and checking for warp? I would guess to say the average 5.0 motor gains a 100hp from a headswap. Say you spend half the money for heads, and then being sure there alright, vs buying edelbrocks for 1200 bucks, but sacrificing half the horsepower gain? When you mean just as fast, do you mean as in within a half second, or within .1? They way I see it, you can run a better flowing intake and better cam to compliment the heads, and that would get you even more power. Maybe I just have a different point of view than you idk lol.

 

[millhouse]

The first Cobra made was in 1993.In 93 Ford switched to Hypter...... pistons.Not very friendly with boost.They can be made safe for up to 8lbs of boost but any higher and you will shatter the pistons.Use you original motor.They have forged pistons.Forged pistons are boost friendly.

Nope...tuned properly, the stock block will split long before you shatter a piston.

 

[GTOreturns]

Nope...tuned properly, the stock block will split long before you shatter a piston.

key words,They "are not" as good as forged for boost. Ask any engine builder.

 

[millhouse]

key words,They "are not" as good as forged for boost. Ask any engine builder.

It's a moot point, as I stated before...the stock block will split before the hypers let go.

Nobody's arguing that they are as good as forged for boost...but with the stock block all they give you is a little bit of added protection against severe detonation.

 

[rickd93_lx]

id say it depends on how much you are getting the cobra motor for, i bought one with 30,000 miles for 800, i removed the gt40'3 and sold them for 350 localy (could have maybe made more on ebay, then strip your old block down and sell it peice by peice on ebay you stand to make your money back plus an extra 100 mor so... translates to free motor!

 

[millhouse]

id say it depends on how much you are getting the cobra motor for, i bought one with 30,000 miles for 800, i removed the gt40'3 and sold them for 350 localy (could have maybe made more on ebay, then strip your old block down and sell it peice by peice on ebay you stand to make your money back plus an extra 100 mor so... translates to free motor!

Yep...I did the same thing, however mine only set me back ~$550

 

[rickd93_lx]

Yep...I did the same thing, however mine only set me back ~$550

yup, free is always a good price

 

[stangjunkie]

build a nice low compression 331 out of the motor you have now.... that would be sweet and that way you could push more boost that way. and you know you have a good platform to start builing on.

 

[GTOreturns]

It's a moot point, as I stated before...the stock block will split before the hypers let go.

Nobody's arguing that they are as good as forged for boost...but with the stock block all they give you is a little bit of added protection against severe detonation.

8lbs of boost on a stock 5.0 (cept different intake) will get you "about" 325RWHP. Correct? Now lets crank it up to 13-15lbs of boost.I gauruntee you the pistons go before the block!!

 

[millhouse]

8lbs of boost on a stock 5.0 (cept different intake) will get you "about" 325RWHP. Correct? Now lets crank it up to 13-15lbs of boost.I gauruntee you the pistons go before the block!!

8lbs of turbo powa on a stock 5.0 can get you 375-400 h/p. Crank that up to 15psi and your looking at block spliting horsepower.

Before you make blind garuntees, go take a look on turbomustangs.com and see how many have abused hper pistons with 10-15 psi with no issues. Hell...even some easy searching here should give you results confirming my statements.

http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/stockblock.php

 

[jons88gt]

now I know power is addicting, but right now im saying id be good with 350ish reliable rwhp

Jon

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

So your saying I should sell my AFR's for gt40ps because they can just as easily get me mid-high 12's without any work nonesoever other than cleanup, putting in new springs, and checking for warp? I would guess to say the average 5.0 motor gains a 100hp from a headswap. Say you spend half the money for heads, and then being sure there alright, vs buying edelbrocks for 1200 bucks, but sacrificing half the horsepower gain? When you mean just as fast, do you mean as in within a half second, or within .1? They way I see it, you can run a better flowing intake and better cam to compliment the heads, and that would get you even more power. Maybe I just have a different point of view than you idk lol.

Man i can always count on people skimming my posts and taking them way out of context. How much did you pay for your AFR's? Did i not say that even basic out of the box Edelbrocks ARE BETTER?


Look....go to carparts.com and find yourself a $350 Explorer engine...they're on there ALL THE TIME. You'll get an engine probably around 100k miles for that price, but i've seen them for as little as 400 with 60k on them. Then, go get yourself a TFS Stage 1 cam and if 1) you can drive, and 2) the rest of your car is strong enough to get driven to hell and back, you WILL run 12.50s on slicks.

How fast are you running with your AFR's? By your logic, power is more important so let's spend 1500+ on AFR's and then end up with a stock engien with great heads but nothing else to go with it. You know how many people i see running 12.9s with AFRs because the rest of their car is either 1) bone stock or 2) they can't put that extra 100hp they got from the heads to good use? People focus too much on max hp and not enough on learning how to use what they've got.

Again, i'm not saying P heads are God's gift to small block engines. Even low end aluminum heads will flow better and make more power. Have i made that clear this time? The question is, how much do you have to spend to get that? Can you spend that money elseware and still run just as fast? YES YOU CAN.

I've seen ported 351W headed cars running 11.90s and 11.80s.....do you have any idea how cheap that kind of combo is compared to an AFR based combo? Sure, you can get their EASIER with AFRs but that's if you have the money to spend.

Consider this....we both go out with X amount of money to spend on an engine build (just like the typical person would do) and you spend probably half your money on those magical AFR heads, but i go out and buy my cheap ass Explorer engine. You will surely end up with more power once you've spent all your money, but i'll have money left over for things like nitrous or a good quality used blower, and then who's making more power?

Again....it's not like i'm stupid here and i don't know that AFRs are some of the sickest heads out there, i'm just saying that you don't HAVE to resort to the best heads on the market to run whatever ET.

Go here StangBangerz Forums - Powered by vBulletin and look up a guy named platedturbonotc....he's running a BONE STOCK Explorer engine with a junkyard turbo setup making 530+hp at the wheels and ran a best of 10.25 this year. I bet you anything in the universe you can't build an AFR based engine and run as fast as he is for the same price as he has in his engine bay even if you include his turbo setup.

I don't mean to get nasty with you, i'm just sick of being taken out of context like people don't read my posts all the way through. It all comes down to dollar vs. dollar and when a guy comes here asking how to run fast, people always jump up and call out these uber high priced go fast toys...but damn, maybe not everyone has that kind of cash to spend ya know? I like to point out ways to go fast for cheap. I love it when someone on here says yeah, my car dynoed at 400hp and i ran a best of 12.80...12.00 can be ran with 300hp at the wheels if you can apply that power right.



Oh, i should add, that the guy posted about simply swapping in a Cobra engine and asked if it would be better than his stock 5.0....simple question....not "what are the sickest heads on the planet". I answered with an engine that he can get just as cheap as a Cobra engine that will be better for what he's asking...and it just blew up from there.

 

[90_Red_LX]

Man i can always count on people skimming my posts and taking them way out of context. How much did you pay for your AFR's? Did i not say that even basic out of the box Edelbrocks ARE BETTER?


Look....go to carparts.com and find yourself a $350 Explorer engine...they're on there ALL THE TIME. You'll get an engine probably around 100k miles for that price, but i've seen them for as little as 400 with 60k on them. Then, go get yourself a TFS Stage 1 cam and if 1) you can drive, and 2) the rest of your car is strong enough to get driven to hell and back, you WILL run 12.50s on slicks.

How fast are you running with your AFR's? By your logic, power is more important so let's spend 1500+ on AFR's and then end up with a stock engien with great heads but nothing else to go with it. You know how many people i see running 12.9s with AFRs because the rest of their car is either 1) bone stock or 2) they can't put that extra 100hp they got from the heads to good use? People focus too much on max hp and not enough on learning how to use what they've got.

Again, i'm not saying P heads are God's gift to small block engines. Even low end aluminum heads will flow better and make more power. Have i made that clear this time? The question is, how much do you have to spend to get that? Can you spend that money elseware and still run just as fast? YES YOU CAN.

I've seen ported 351W headed cars running 11.90s and 11.80s.....do you have any idea how cheap that kind of combo is compared to an AFR based combo? Sure, you can get their EASIER with AFRs but that's if you have the money to spend.

Consider this....we both go out with X amount of money to spend on an engine build (just like the typical person would do) and you spend probably half your money on those magical AFR heads, but i go out and buy my cheap ass Explorer engine. You will surely end up with more power once you've spent all your money, but i'll have money left over for things like nitrous or a good quality used blower, and then who's making more power?

Again....it's not like i'm stupid here and i don't know that AFRs are some of the sickest heads out there, i'm just saying that you don't HAVE to resort to the best heads on the market to run whatever ET.

Go here StangBangerz Forums - Powered by vBulletin and look up a guy named platedturbonotc....he's running a BONE STOCK Explorer engine with a junkyard turbo setup making 530+hp at the wheels and ran a best of 10.25 this year. I bet you anything in the universe you can't build an AFR based engine and run as fast as he is for the same price as he has in his engine bay even if you include his turbo setup.

I don't mean to get nasty with you, i'm just sick of being taken out of context like people don't read my posts all the way through. It all comes down to dollar vs. dollar and when a guy comes here asking how to run fast, people always jump up and call out these uber high priced go fast toys...but damn, maybe not everyone has that kind of cash to spend ya know? I like to point out ways to go fast for cheap. I love it when someone on here says yeah, my car dynoed at 400hp and i ran a best of 12.80...12.00 can be ran with 300hp at the wheels if you can apply that power right.



Oh, i should add, that the guy posted about simply swapping in a Cobra engine and asked if it would be better than his stock 5.0....simple question....not "what are the sickest heads on the planet". I answered with an engine that he can get just as cheap as a Cobra engine that will be better for what he's asking...and it just blew up from there.

I get what you are saying, and basically we mean the same thing, but from different points of view. I didn't mean to sound a dick in my previous post, I was just already pissed off when I read it then I mistook what you said. I get what you mean with more money left over to get other stuff, that makes sense. But from my viewpoint, I wanted the best I could buy, as I want to go as quick as I can, even at extra cost. You are also correct in what good is the extra power if you can't use it. Hit the nail on the head. While my driving isn't all that great, a 1.90 60ft with bone stock suspension on all season performance tires isn't too shabby. Especially with the mods I have. Basically I've never been a fan of the "cheaper" way, mostly because everytime I try to save a buck or two here something blows up in my face and I wind up screwing myself over. Again sorry to sound like an prick in my previous post, I guess I need to refrain from posting when in a pissed off mood to prevent a minor difference of a opinion turning into a big deal this is. I apologize.

Forgot to add, your also right about spending all your money on good heads but with an otherwise stock motor. You need to build a combo on what your budget allows. For me, I worked my ass off and saved for 2 and a half years to put together a good h/c/i with good heads, intake, cam, and other needed parts including suspension, so in my perspective I can make the heads work well with other components.

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Well see, just to prove that i'm not biased in my engine opinions, you'll be really interested in reading this Carcraft article....they take a bone stock 5.0 block and bolt on AFR 165s and pick up a clean 100hp....now that is damn impressive....400 flywheel hp with an otherwise stock short block right down to the cam. http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0307_ford_302_v8_engine_buildup/index.html


Don't get me wrong, if money were no object i wouldn't even consider a junkyard engine....but in a way i get off on seeing guys run so damn fast for so little. My buddy with that 10.25 coupe seriously doesn't have 2k under his hood...it's sick.

BTW, here's the car....he's a painter as well...

Back on topic though, if you're on a tight budget....you know what i'd suggest. However, if you do have the cash to get serious with it and want the best of the best, by no means hit up some AFRs because they're about the best you can get for a typical build. The problem is that most people don't have money to chunk down on all these high end parts all at once, and before you know it you can easily spend 6k on just a well built engine, and by then you've still got a stock trany and all that other crap, when you could have a whole lot of fun with 6k if you spend it carefully.