I have been chasing this pinging thing particular with the 94 & 95 GT's for almost a year. I did the usual checks and replaced the usual electronic sensors to find out the pinging is still there. I even lowered the timing to 8 degrees initial, pinging was gone but performance suffered. I chucked it up to not having the EGR functioning mainly because I have a 351w block that no one makes an EGR provisions in the headers for the 94 and 95 GT's that I could find. I push the plunger in the EGR sensor half way as I researched these forums to get rid of the CEL. My last hope for which I was going to do was get the computer reflashed to correct this problem. Until one day I was given a Tornado Fuel saver(75mm). I probably put that thing up and down my air intake track,(what was happening it was hindering airflow) to still have the problem. So I put in front of the C&L 76mm sample tube so that air is directed to the meter electronics and boom the car idled correctly on cold and hot starts. Performance is back even at 8 degrees initial timing. So basically my problem was the K&N filter was creating a turbulence to which the meter could not sample incoming air. I did not check the forums to see if this was one of the causes of pinging and lack of performance but I wanted to share it with everyone. Maybe this is the reason people do not get the full horse power gains with a conical filter placed directly on the meter until the get a reflash to correct the problem. By the way the K&N was blocked from engine heat and fan wash. My garage is 393 stroker, Trickflow intake and stage one cam, Ported and polish E7 heads with oversized valves and so and so forth. SHAWN
CAI + Tornado Fuel Saver= No pinging
- Thread starter yelladawg351
- Start date
Yobi1Kanobi
Member
- Apr 9, 2003
- 559
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NotQuik
Founding Member
i had the pinging as well and only way it was any better was 8 degrees of timing as well and it ended up being a dirty maf sensor for me and hasn't done it since.....timing is now at 14 and I run 89 and it doesn't ping anymore under load. I also replaced a couple sensors (act, ect, o2's)
JimBowy
Member
Had you ever tried to "clock" the MAF? With an air filter directly on the end I can't see it making a big difference by clocking it, but with the crappy C&L meters and how they meter the air it wouldn't surprise me.
As was said, cleaning the MAF sampling wires (CAREFULLY) has helped a TON of people here with all sorts of issues.
As was said, cleaning the MAF sampling wires (CAREFULLY) has helped a TON of people here with all sorts of issues.
The Ping Thing is so common, its gotta be close to a weekly occurrence!
You usually see it with GT peeps and don't with Cobra peeps.
Generally speaking ..............
That is because the pcm is different in each car.
In the GT pcm, you'll find a leaner ratio and a more aggressive spark curve
thus
perfect directions for a qucik trip to Ping City
The pcm is delivered with values that will ping
or
are right on the verge of producing ping.
A lot of times you will see peeps cry about it starting to happen after they:
did a new maf
did a new cia
did a new filter
or
any other mod that could cause a leaner ratio
The same could be said about anything they did to increase spark value
Many, Many, threads have been done about it
so
you will have no problem finding info for your research.
You basically got to find a way to either lower spark or increase fuel
or
You may have to do both
Good Luck in your quest
Grady
You usually see it with GT peeps and don't with Cobra peeps.
Generally speaking ..............
That is because the pcm is different in each car.
In the GT pcm, you'll find a leaner ratio and a more aggressive spark curve
thus
perfect directions for a qucik trip to Ping City
The pcm is delivered with values that will ping
or
are right on the verge of producing ping.
A lot of times you will see peeps cry about it starting to happen after they:
did a new maf
did a new cia
did a new filter
or
any other mod that could cause a leaner ratio
The same could be said about anything they did to increase spark value
Many, Many, threads have been done about it
so
you will have no problem finding info for your research.
You basically got to find a way to either lower spark or increase fuel
or
You may have to do both
Good Luck in your quest
Grady
mustangt562
Member
i got a 347 with aluminum heads and still had pinging. The only thing that fixed it for me was getting dynotuned and pulling out timing at higher rpm's. another thing you can do that will work is get a Snow Performance water/meth kit. it will for sure kill the pinging and he!! it will even let you increase your timing. I have the Timing Advance Module from MSD and the Snow kit and can crank up my timing up to 15* (for a total of 25) without pinging with the Snow kit activated.
Nothing wrong with the C&L meter because I tried using the stock meter. Nothing heads wrong with the E7 heads expecially if you can port and polish them and put bigger valves on them. My main problem was the extra displacement and the K&N filter cause the meter not to get the correct airflow. Clocking did not help either. The Tornado Fuel saver placed in front of the meter created the airflow the sensor needs to read. I wanted to iron out all the bugs before I have the computer re-tuned. Because everytime I read some not all of the Stangnet forums people still have problems even after the flash tune because that is all they thought they needed. Engine tuning is a Science, not a quick fix. Most of the time but not all you need to have the computer re-tuned with the use of a K&N filter just visit the 05 and up Mustang owners. Just my opinion.
A thought or two that may give you a look at a bigger pic
When you look at the 05 pcm's ........
you're looking at a lot of improved technology since our pcm's were made.
Our pcm's don't have flash capability
or
other things the newer pcm's have.
It just isn't an apples to apples comparison
Your pinging issue is the result of an out of whack fuel/spark ratio
and
here are just a few things that have caused this to happen
Your additional cubes have thrown the pcm load factors .........
totally beyond anything the pcm can deal with
On our 94-95 pcm's ..........
Load is used for most tables to determine what values to use.
Or in other words
Accurate Load is CRITICAL for the pcm to give optimum drivability & power
When we use after market mafs, injectors, increase cubic inches
and
many of the other typical hot rod mods, we hose up the load factors.
Or in other words which pertain to the ping thing you ask about here ..........
The mods you have done
especially the additional cubic inches .........
They've skewed the load factor in your Fuel & Spark Tables
Good to see you found a fix that helped
You are correct about a tune in the fact
you can get the mismatched info the pcm thinks it is dealing with
more closely matched to the info that is correct for your current combo
If you care to know more about the pcm, tables, and such
I got some basic info
and
You can see the spark & fuel tables with the link in my sig
Grady
Black95GTS
Active Member
For the most part, worked E7 heads are a bottleneck for HCI 302s, nevermind 393s. Grady is dead nuts right. There is a cubic inch scalar in your computer that needs to go from 301.44 to 392.871. This is a crucial number that affects pretty much all of your calculations.
Not to mention you need to update your MAF transfer, injector sizing, etc etc.
I bet you'll be blown away if you swap heads and fix your air/fuel computer situation. If I had that engine, I'd use Victor Jr. Heads, Victor EFI intake, 90mm TB, 42 pound injectors, LMAF, custom cam (or if you wanna stay OTS then a TFS stage 3) CUSTOM TUNE, and gear it up.
Adam
1994Vib.RedGT
Member
put in 24s and a new maf, untuned; I can smell gas every time I rev the motor, that will get rid of pinging
Black95GTS
Active Member
Don't do this. This is bad advice. 24s aren't close to enough injector for a 393. 24s aren't enough injector for any HCI engine over a 306.
Adam
*HI-JACK*
Hey Grady...
I've had the ping thing for about a year now...before that the car was perfect.
It's getting pretty annoying, and I can't get it away. My timing is 10*,
and I even sometimes try 93 to no success.
When I do get the good stuff, the pinging will take a little bit more before it starts to happen. I ONLY get pinging when flooring it in 3rd or OD, like on the highway.
ECT, ACT, o2's, MAF, and regular maintenence stuff has all been replaced.
Never have any codes.
Would buying a FPR be able to help me solve this, even if it is just a band-aid?
Thanks
Joe
*HI-JACK*
Hey Grady...
I've had the ping thing for about a year now...before that the car was perfect.
It's getting pretty annoying, and I can't get it away. My timing is 10*,
and I even sometimes try 93 to no success.
When I do get the good stuff, the pinging will take a little bit more before it starts to happen. I ONLY get pinging when flooring it in 3rd or OD, like on the highway.
ECT, ACT, o2's, MAF, and regular maintenence stuff has all been replaced.
Never have any codes.
Would buying a FPR be able to help me solve this, even if it is just a band-aid?
Thanks
Joe
Hey Joe!
Since you pointed out it is during a WOT condition
I'm gonna say it might
I say "might" because .........
I've never had an afpr thus I got no real data to draw from
Lets Try This ..... IIRC, I think Adam has posted some info on this subject
HELLO ADAM
Can you add more info here
Grady
Hey Joe!
Since you pointed out it is during a WOT condition
I'm gonna say it might
I say "might" because .........
I've never had an afpr thus I got no real data to draw from
Lets Try This ..... IIRC, I think Adam has posted some info on this subject
HELLO ADAM
Can you add more info here
Grady
Yeah, I guess it kind of makes sense that it cannot supply enough fuel under the most stressful conditions.
If Adam doesn't hear his name being called, I'll probably start a new thread in a couple of days.
Thanks
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