Won't start- tried just about everything

[zimm17]

Yes I went through the checklist I found after a search here. Here's what I got:

Ford 5.0HO engine with the full ford motorsport setup for swap into a jeep. Harness, mass air, sensors, etc. Been running fine for a few years, then the alternators started blowing diodes (GM 1 wire types). I just upgraded to a PA performance 3G. I'm running a lincoln MKVII fan which pulls 40+ amps- I thought that was blowing the alternators. 3G Worked great for a month. Then the battery died again. I roll started it by popping the clutch and got home. Now it won't start at all.

Engine cranks fine after a new starter (was turning slow and tested bad).
Battery is good (pep boys machine test)
I have power to the coil- but no spark out of it
Fuel pump runs and 38psi on the rail
Noid light on the harness indicates no signal to fire injectors
12 volts present at red wire on injector plug
changed to a new distributor, ignition module, cap, rotor, plugs, MSD coil
I just checked every power wire for the harness using the ford motorsport manual. Every 12v, ignition on, cranking only, and crank/run is the right power. I checked the grounds (ECU, harness x2)- good to go.
ECU relay has power
With ignition on- check engine light comes like normal and the fuel pump runs for a few seconds.

I give up- could the ECU be fried? What the heck is keeping the coil from firing and the injectors from pulsing? Any way to check the ECU? Anything I'm not thinking of?

 

[HISSIN50]

The PIP is possible. If you have a friend whose dizzy you can borrow, I'd try that.

Any codes?

Good luck.

 

[zimm17]

The PIP is possible. If you have a friend whose dizzy you can borrow, I'd try that.

Any codes?

Good luck.

I just changed it out for a reman unit today- no difference.

 

[jrichker]

1.) Replace the TFI module if you haven't already done so.
2.) Try starting the car with the SPOUT connector removed.
3.) Check TPS voltage - it should be .55-.95 volts, key on, engine not running.

Dump the codes and see what the computer says is wrong…Codes may be present in the computer even if the Check Engine light isn’t on.

Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great.

See http://www.troublecodes.net/Ford/
OR
See http://www.mustangworks.com/articles/electronics/eec-iv_codes.html

IF your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see http://www.actron.com/product_detail.php?pid=16153 for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/pc-7208-90-equus-digital-ford-code-reader-3145.aspx – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.

 

[zimm17]

TFI was just replaced too. I'll try to start without the spout connected and also check the TPS voltage.

Codes were IAC and coolant temp out of range (engine was 32 degrees) and my typical 80's codes for my not-hooked up thermactor/emission relays.

 

[zimm17]

1.) Replace the TFI module if you haven't already done so.
2.) Try starting the car with the SPOUT connector removed.
3.) Check TPS voltage - it should be .55-.95 volts, key on, engine not running.

Yeeeehaaaaw!!!!! Runs without the spout connector! I never heard of these things frying. Autoparts store item?

 

[jrichker]

Yeeeehaaaaw!!!!! Runs without the spout connector! I never heard of these things frying. Autoparts store item?

The SPOUT connector isn't the problem, only a symptom of other malfunctioning parts.

The "Only starts without the SPOUT installed" is a symptom of either a bad PIP sensor in the distributor, a wiring problem in the SPOUT wiring, a bad TFI or a bad computer (not likely, the computers seldom fail).

A fault in the SPOUT wiring would show code 18. No code 18 when you dump the codes and you can scratch this one off your list.

If the computer is able to dump the codes and doesn't show any killer ones, it can be marked off the list. Be sure to check the computer power ground for damage and corrosion. The computer has its own dedicated power ground that
comes off the ground pigtail on the battery ground wire. Due to it's proximity to the battery, it may become corroded by acid fumes from the battery. It is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/lt green wire. You'll find it up next to the starter solenoid where the wire goes into the wiring harness.

That leaves the TFI module & PIP sensor.
There are black and gray TFI modules, the color indicating a different circuity inside. Your TFI module should be gray, if it isn't then you have the wrong one.
The PIP sensor inside the distributor is the pime suspect. I have a Wells tech bulletin that describes a no start when hot problem unless the SPOUT is out. It pretty much mirrors your problem except that you don't start hot or cold.

Please keep us advised as to what you find. I will update the Cranks Ok but no start checklist if you find the PIP sensor is the problem.

 

[zimm17]

Okay, wasn't the spout, it was just luck. I tried to start again and this time the engine wouldn't crank over. This with a full battery on a 40amp charger. Hmmmm....

I got spark doing the "rotate the distributor" trick- which didn't work before. So I went through and re-did all the grounds. Frame to block, block to battery. I wire brushed the crap out of each and put them back together. Well it fired up like an indy car! Runs perfect- I'm hoping that was it and that the crappy ground was giving the ignition and fuel injectors fits when it was cranking before. We'll see how long it runs good for.

Thanks for all the help though! I kept all the printouts and will keep them in my manual for future troubleshooting.

 

[Methodical]

... I have a Wells tech bulletin that describes a no start when hot problem unless the SPOUT is out. It pretty much mirrors your problem except that you don't start hot or cold.

Jrichker, can you post up the Wells tech bulleting. I have the same no start issue with the stock ignition system, excpet mine will start with the MSD ignition connected.

Thanks