Steering box sector shaft size?

[Tim65GT]

Got the engine out and figured I should do something about the loose 40 year old steering. I would like a Power Rack & Pinion, but don't want the install hassles.

I have a '65 GT with the 16:1, 3 & 3/4 turn long shaft box. I also have a '68 collapsible column I want to replace the solid shaft with. I was thinking of this from Borgeson:

920018 Rebuilt Mustang Box 67-70/4 Turn ratio/1" Sector Diameter $360.90

http://www.borgeson.com/67-70-mustang-manual-steering-boxes-brackets.htm

I think both have the 1" sector shaft.

What should I do as far as a rag joint? One of these?

http://www.borgeson.com/ragjoints.htm

Maybe go to a junk yard? Anyone know what size/spline it is?
Are the column splines the same as the box input shaft splines?
What's the advantages/disadvantages of using a u-joint instead?

 

[bnickel]

i think both have the 1" sector shaft but there is an early box with the 1-1/8" shaft, can't remember which though.

i think the only advantage to using a u-joint instead of a rag joint would be more steering feel through the wheel, but replacement of a worn u-joint would be harder than a rag joint since you'd either have to remove the column or the steering box. the stock rag joint is there to minimize vibration through the wheel, IIRC, the best of both both worlds would be to use a stock rag joint with a poly disc.

 

[Rusty67]

It would be cheaper to have this guy rebuild your box. I heard from a few guys on the board that he does good work.

http://www.stangerssite.com/Optimum/index.html

 

[CraigMBA]

The 68-70 box will bolt right in.

You can use a poly or OE replacment rag joint to join the two up.

If you want power steering, ABS Power Brake has that pesky internal power box for $500 that will bolt right in.

 

[Tim65GT]

It would be cheaper to have this guy rebuild your box. I heard from a few guys on the board that he does good work.

http://www.stangerssite.com/Optimum/index.html

Thanks for the replies and the link. That gives me another option. I don't want my old box though, I want to get rid of the "spear" (long shaft) and install the '68 collapsible column I have. Maybe they can swap out?

The 68-70 box will bolt right in.

You can use a poly or OE replacment rag joint to join the two up.

If you want power steering, ABS Power Brake has that pesky internal power box for $500 that will bolt

I'm sure the box is the same, as long as I get one with the same 1" sector shaft that my '65 box has. I need a rag joint though and not too sure about the exact one. The end of my '68 column doesn't have splines. It has the top part of the rag joint assembly welded onto it. So I think I need this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1959-69-GM-1961-79-Ford-NEW-Rag-Joint-Steering-Coupler_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ42609QQihZ018QQitemZ280174338827QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

View attachment 347213

 

[CraigMBA]

You and I are doing the swap for the same reasons. I don't want the spear anymore, and I'd like to run a smaller steering wheel and have power steering.

The picture you posted will work if you go with the ABS box or the Flaming River box. I know ABS will provide you the the rag joint coupler. I wanted to use a Borgenson joint (straight up U joint) but I think I've talked myself out of it because of excessive NVH through the steering column. I'm building a street car, not a track car and I have to keep reminding myself that.

If you want to get a used box, I'm sure you can call someplace like Mustang Village in Ontario, CA, they can likely sell you everything from the pitman arm to the rag joint and you can just bolt it in. Well, not exactly bolt it in.......the column takes a little fiddling.

http://www.mustangandfords.com/howto/30247_collapsible_steering_column/index.html

 

[Tim65GT]

CraigMBA
You and I are doing the swap for the same reasons. I don't want the spear anymore, and I'd like to run a smaller steering wheel and have power steering.

The picture you posted will work if you go with the ABS box or the Flaming River box. I know ABS will provide you the the rag joint coupler.

So are you going with the ABS setup? I wish there was more feedback out there on their integral PS box. I asked this in the old thread:

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=712261

...that was started on this setup:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320139866137&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RCRX_Pr4_PcY_BIN_IT&refitem=320133872087&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

I like the features and price, but don't like the negative feed back.

 

[CraigMBA]

So are you going with the ABS setup? I wish there was more feedback out there on their integral PS box. I asked this in the old thread:

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=712261

I am using the ABS setup. They are my customer and do quality work.

See this link for a greater discussion.

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36047

...that was started on this setup:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320139866137&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RCRX_Pr4_PcY_BIN_IT&refitem=320133872087&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

I like the features and price, but don't like the negative feed back.

I don't know who those folks are. ABS is top notch.

 

[bnickel]

Thanks for the replies and the link. That gives me another option. I don't want my old box though, I want to get rid of the "spear" (long shaft) and install the '68 collapsible column I have. Maybe they can swap out?



I'm sure the box is the same, as long as I get one with the same 1" sector shaft that my '65 box has. I need a rag joint though and not too sure about the exact one. The end of my '68 column doesn't have splines. It has the top part of the rag joint assembly welded onto it. So I think I need this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1959-69-GM-1961-79-Ford-NEW-Rag-Joint-Steering-Coupler_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ42609QQihZ018QQitemZ280174338827QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

View attachment 347191

if you get lthe box from stangerssite i think he can set you up with a rag joint as well or at least tell you exactly what you need. AFAIK, you'll need a stock rag joint for a 68-70 stang without tilt if you don't have a tilt column, if you have a tilt column then things get kinda tricky because the rag joints for those are very hard to find and bring money when you find one, i'm talking in the $100-150 range....for a damn rag joint, you gotta be kidding me, they are outrageously priced. i'm actually glad i'm putting a TCP rack in my cougar with the tilt column i have so i can just use the u-joint that comes with the kit.

 

[Tim65GT]

CraigMBA

I am using the ABS setup. They are my customer and do quality work.

Thanks, I read the corner carvers thread.

Do you have any more info other than the Mustang Monthly Article (which only showed the prototype), such as price, what's included in their kit or other customers comments?

 

[bnickel]

i just got this email reply from ABS in response to an inquiry i had made about their new box last week.


WE STOCK THIS BOX INTRODUCTORY OFFER. POWER BOX WITH PITMAN ARM. $575.00
STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS
THANKS
LG


seem to be the same price as the ebay one i still have no idea if it's the same people though.

but for $575 as long as it works i may sell that TCP rack i have

 

[CraigMBA]

The one on Ebay is somebody in Chicago.

ABS is in Orange, CA.

ABS doesn't sell on ebay AFAIK.

 

[Tim65GT]

bnickel
seem to be the same price as the ebay one i still have no idea if it's the same people though.

Can't get to ebay right now for some reason, but IIRC the one I seen was over $600, but included the pump/bracket assy & hoses.

Still, if a box can just bolt in and be compatable with all the other steering components, I could get the hoses, pump and brackets somewhere.

Another monkey wrench... Think it will clear Hedman Shorty's?

 

[bnickel]

ok you guys are correct, that last box the ebay guy had listed was $675 not $575 and the guy is in Chicago not California. my apologies guys, but i was only speculating too, i wasn't saying it was the same guy was just unsure if it was or not, it's now obvious it was not.

 

[CraigMBA]

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/4803,,_iKRCandi-Aluminum-Steering-Pumps.html

This is the pump I'm going to use. This is the same unit TCI sells for double the price. I'm using it specifically because of the externally replacable flow control valve so I can adjust the boost to my liking.

 

[bnickel]

i plan on using this with my stock pump.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adjustable Power Steering Valve PS-101 Patent #6,029,766

ADJUSTABLE POWER STEERING VALVE
Ttune your power steering with our new Adjustable Power Steering Valve. It allows you to set, or 'tune', the 'feel' of your power steering with just the turn of a knob. The high pressure steering fluid goes thru the lower pressure passage to the rack and back thru the upper low pressure line to the resevoir. As the knob is turned counter-clockwise, the needle valve is raised up which allows the high pressure fluid to bleed off into the return line, which reduces pressure to the rack and pinion to tighten the feel of the steering. You can go from full power to almost full manual with just the turn of a knob!


PART # OPTION PRICE
PS-101 Adjustable Power Steering Valve $79
PS-114 Installation/fittings Kit (included in hose kits) $49


it's from Heidts

http://heidts.com/heip27.htm

 

[bnickel]

ok you guys are correct, that last box the ebay guy had listed was $675 not $575 and the guy is in Chicago not California. my apologies guys, but i was only speculating too, i wasn't saying it was the same guy was just unsure if it was or not, it's now obvious it was not.

just got an email back from ABS and the box they have available right now is not the one with the new case, this one is the toyota or whatever box. i have another email in to him asking when the new one will be available.

 

[Tim65GT]

bnickel
just got an email back from ABS and the box they have available right now is not the one with the new case, this one is the toyota or whatever box. i have another email in to him asking when the new one will be available.

Be sure to keep us informed. I can wait a little bit, It's not like I don't have anything else to do.

 

[bnickel]

Be sure to keep us informed. I can wait a little bit, It's not like I don't have anything else to do.

will do, hopefully i will get something back from them tomorrow.

 

[CraigMBA]

I can answer that one. Four to six months on the new case.

I don't have a pump right now, so that KRC unit will be the cats meow.