5-lug, advice on application

JustA5.0

Member
May 12, 2007
148
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16
Toronto, ON
Background:
To save money I'm gathering my 5-lug conversion pieces used, here and there. I originally wanted to run 17x8 Bullitts up front and 17x9 out back, and was going to get Fox Length axles and NRC brackets. However, I came across 94 V6 spindles and axles for cheap (paid the same as the brackets would have cost me alone). They included the rest of the brake hardware, but from a car that had close to 200K miles and I'm going to swap with new or lightly used calipers instead.

My first question... I found a fairly cheap used PBR front and rear setup from a 99-04 GT (haven't bought it yet). I have read Matt's conversion site extensively, and am confused about some of the info. In a section about rear discs he says, You can use the brake hardware off the 99+ cars, but you will need to use the 94-98 axle shafts in the 79-98 axle housing. which sounds like a green light for me. BUT further down in the parts list, it says to use sn95 calipers from a 94-98 and the axle brackets from a 94-98 car. The only parts listed as being 94+ are the pads/rotors. Am I going to be able to use the calipers and brackets from a 99-04 for the rear, because these two areas of the site contradict each other?

Second question, the dust shields are toast that I've got. I know the part # listed on the website, but the setup above also includes front and rear dust shields in good condition. Are these the same dust shields/part# between 94-04 cars? Or will I have to buy a 94-98 version?

Lastly, wheel related questions. Due to the extra width of the sn95 axles, I was going to cancel my plans and run 17x8s all around. I thought of something though and wondered if anyone has done this. Could I get a 17x9 wheel with the 05-08 mustang offset, or would that push things too inward? According to a calculator I used going from my current Pony wheel to a 17x9 05-08' wheel would push things out by just 2mm, but inward clearance would be reduced by 48mm. Now offset that further by the axles being .75" longer (19mm), and I'd have a 17x9 wheel that stuck out 21mm further and 29mm more inward. Also, according to this calculator going from my Pony to a 94-04' 17x9 wheel (assuming stock length axles), would push things out by 23mm and 27mm inward. Now everyone says a 17x9 is fine out back with stock length axles so I'm hoping this 2mm difference would work for me using 05-08' wheels on the sn95 axles. Just want to hear from you if this works or absolutely wouldn't. Another consideration though, would this further offset wheel affect my handling or place more stress on the rear end? Not sure how two different offset wheels (front and back) would affect my steering/handling geometry either? Your thoughts...

P.S. It'd be nice if we all had different wheels laying around to test our theories out, lol :)
 
My first question... I found a fairly cheap used PBR front and rear setup from a 99-04 GT (haven't bought it yet). I have read Matt's conversion site extensively, and am confused about some of the info. In a section about rear discs he says, You can use the brake hardware off the 99+ cars, but you will need to use the 94-98 axle shafts in the 79-98 axle housing. which sounds like a green light for me. BUT further down in the parts list, it says to use sn95 calipers from a 94-98 and the axle brackets from a 94-98 car. The only parts listed as being 94+ are the pads/rotors. Am I going to be able to use the calipers and brackets from a 99-04 for the rear, because these two areas of the site contradict each other?

He's referring to the rear brakes mainly. Basically in '99 Ford widened the 8.8 axle to push the rear wheels out (should have gone more IMHO) so the axle is about 1" wider. As a result, the axle shafts are longer too. ALL 94-04 rear disk brakes are the same basically. The GT/v6's all use the same brackets, rotors, calipers etc from 1994 to 2004 while the Cobras/Mach1/Bulllitts all use the same as well. Just in 1999, the axle got wider. That just means if you get rear brake parts from a 2002, you can't use the two axle shafts. You will need to find axles from a 1994-1998.

Up front, you can use the 99-04 calipers on any year spindle...except you may need to gind the spindle slightly if you use 94-95 spindles.

Second question, the dust shields are toast that I've got. I know the part # listed on the website, but the setup above also includes front and rear dust shields in good condition. Are these the same dust shields/part# between 94-04 cars? Or will I have to buy a 94-98 version?

Dust sheilds are all the same from 1994-2004. If you ask for a front dust shield for any year or model, you will get the same part. If you ask for a rear, they are all the same. Only 1 part number for them

Lastly, wheel related questions. Due to the extra width of the sn95 axles, I was going to cancel my plans and run 17x8s all around. I thought of something though and wondered if anyone has done this. Could I get a 17x9 wheel with the 05-08 mustang offset, or would that push things too inward? According to a calculator I used going from my current Pony wheel to a 17x9 05-08' wheel would push things out by just 2mm, but inward clearance would be reduced by 48mm. Now offset that further by the axles being .75" longer (19mm), and I'd have a 17x9 wheel that stuck out 21mm further and 29mm more inward. Also, according to this calculator going from my Pony to a 94-04' 17x9 wheel (assuming stock length axles), would push things out by 23mm and 27mm inward. Now everyone says a 17x9 is fine out back with stock length axles so I'm hoping this 2mm difference would work for me using 05-08' wheels on the sn95 axles. Just want to hear from you if this works or absolutely wouldn't. Another consideration though, would this further offset wheel affect my handling or place more stress on the rear end? Not sure how two different offset wheels (front and back) would affect my steering/handling geometry either? Your thoughts...


I asked that question a long time ago. In theory it will work, however nobody has yet to confirm it to me.

I wanted to run 17x9 SN95 bullitts up front, and 17x9 S197 bullitts in the rear with the wider SN95 track. No idea if it will work yet...but it should on paper
 
Thanks for the clarification 5L5. This will save a lot of money, as I'll have almost everything needed.

Another question about the dust shields. Not doubting what you said but, I was looking on 50resto and they list front dust shields for 94-95, 96-98, and 99-04 separately at different prices. Any idea why that is, or is it a sly cashgrab based on their demand?

Also, do you think two different offset wheels would adversely affect the cars handling/steering (I really have no clue)? When I used to be in the import scene, I know a lot of guys would run bigger offset wheels in the back of whatever car so they could fit a wider wheel. However, if you asked how their cars handled you'd get the canned it's tight or handles AMAZING response.

Does anyone on here have S197 9" wheels with SN95 length axles successfully installed on their Fox? To me it seems similar to running the extra offset 95 Cobra wheel Ford used to sell, that complimented the M2300K kit.
 
IF you use 94-95 rear axles, you can run a 17X9" wheel with a +24mm offset. It won't stick out, but I would roll the fender lips because they will be right out at the quarters edge. You can run a 17X8 05+ wheels. They have a +45mm offset. This would sit inward +21mm from a 17X9 with a +24mm offset. 05+ wheels sit in 15mm from a stock 94-04 17X8 wheel. The 05+ wheels will be just inside, causing no issues, and they will look right at home.

Basically, you don't have to run 05+ wheels with 94-98 axles, but you can. If you plan on running them on the front as well, plan on using 96-04 spindles, because they will push the wheels out 8mm over the 94-95 spindles. 05+ wheels will hit the strut if you use 94-95 spindles. I know this, because I have tried it on my car. They just clea my strut and I have 96-04 spindles.

I would highly recommend the PBR front calipers, brackets, and lines. You just have to buy an adapter union for the passenger side brake line to the hard line from the car. It cost me $1.37 from auto parts store.
 
check the kit here:
http://fiveologyracing.com/Performance_Parts.html

i bought my swap from someone that had assebled the used parts then gave up. started with 94/95 spindles, 99+ front brakes, axles and drums. local oreillys turned all 4 pieces for $30.

then i bought the 13" stuff for the front, then did the rear cobra swap. all this was spread out over a year, and i resold the old stuff to get some of money back.
 
IF you use 94-95 rear axles, you can run a 17X9" wheel with a +24mm offset. It won't stick out, but I would roll the fender lips because they will be right out at the quarters edge. You can run a 17X8 05+ wheels. They have a +45mm offset. This would sit inward +21mm from a 17X9 with a +24mm offset. 05+ wheels sit in 15mm from a stock 94-04 17X8 wheel. The 05+ wheels will be just inside, causing no issues, and they will look right at home.

Basically, you don't have to run 05+ wheels with 94-98 axles, but you can. If you plan on running them on the front as well, plan on using 96-04 spindles, because they will push the wheels out 8mm over the 94-95 spindles. 05+ wheels will hit the strut if you use 94-95 spindles. I know this, because I have tried it on my car. They just clea my strut and I have 96-04 spindles.
Yeah I want to avoid rolling the lips, at least initially. It'd be another battle to find a shop that can roll them properly and clean looking. The fenders don't look to have any damage/rust after 21 years, so it'd kill me if something happened to em after rolling.
I'm thinking along the same lines, 05' wheel being 21mm more inward, offset that by axles being 19mm longer and you get just 2mm. And you're saying that an 05' stock GT 17x8 wheel has the same +45mm offset as a 17x9? I'm sure that'd be easy to find one for test fitting than. I take it you're running 05' wheels out back as well?
 
Yeah I want to avoid rolling the lips, at least initially. It'd be another battle to find a shop that can roll them properly and clean looking. The fenders don't look to have any damage/rust after 21 years, so it'd kill me if something happened to em after rolling.
I'm thinking along the same lines, 05' wheel being 21mm more inward, offset that by axles being 19mm longer and you get just 2mm. And you're saying that an 05' stock GT 17x8 wheel has the same +45mm offset as a 17x9? I'm sure that'd be easy to find one for test fitting than. I take it you're running 05' wheels out back as well?

Yes, the 05+ 17X8 wheel and 05+ 17X9 wheels have the same +45mm offset. But see, if you jump to a 17X9, even though the wheel has the same offset, you have to add that additional inch in width, which puts the outer wheel back where you started with a 17X8 30mm offset.

I have 05 wheels, and I put them on the back of my 81....BUT....I have the 2001 axle, which is 1-1/2 inches longer (on each side) than the fox.....which is 3/4" longer on each side than a 94-98 rear end. So....I will show you these pics, but your wheels won't be here.....they will be inward 3/4". Also....these are the stock 235-55's so the tire makes it look as if it is sitting out more than it is. A 245-45 is more even with the wheel than the 235-55's

DSC04295.webp


DSC04294.webp


DSC04296.webp


DSC04299.webp


Compare the above shot with this one. This has stock 17X8 30mm offsets.

DSC04298.webp
 
So in theory my application (17x9, 94-98axles) should be similar to your #1-4 pics. I definately don't want to run a 17x9 sn95 with my axles as I don't like that pushed out look (realize your last pic is a 17x8 wheel but with axle difference should be about the same appearance).

With your 05 wheels and 01 axle combo did you have to roll the fenders?

I was also planning on running 235-45-17 front and 255-40-17 rear tires if I went staggered. 235s in front because my 87 has the smaller fender space. Your thoughts?
 
So in theory my application (17x9, 94-98axles) should be similar to your #1-4 pics. I definately don't want to run a 17x9 sn95 with my axles as I don't like that pushed out look (realize your last pic is a 17x8 wheel but with axle difference should be about the same appearance).

With your 05 wheels and 01 axle combo did you have to roll the fenders?

I was also planning on running 235-45-17 front and 255-40-17 rear tires if I went staggered. 235s in front because my 87 has the smaller fender space. Your thoughts?

In theory, yes, a regular 17X9 (+24mm offset) will be close to pics #1 and #4. They will be very close to the edge.

With my 05 wheels and 01 axles, IMO, the fender lips will still have to be rolled in. Maybe not for straight line driving, but if I took a hard corner, the body roll would make mew nervous. BUT.....with yours being 3/4" inward, you will be fine.

A 235 up front and a 255 out back will work, but 255's on 9" wheels are stretched. I recommend 275's. Let me show you the front pics of my car. I have early fenders too, and with both 17X8 245-45-R17's up front, I still have clearance. I even had clearance with 275-40-R17's on my 17X9 +24mm Cobra R wheels up front.


17X8 +30mm offsets
View attachment 319126

View attachment 319127


17X8 +45mm 05+ wheels..Keep in mind though the tall 55 series tires. (This PIC also has the +30mm wheels on the back, so don't let that throw you off thinking the rears are the 05+ wheels....they are the stock 94-04 offset....just look at the front....
DSC04293.webp


DSC04292.webp


DSC04291.webp
 
Thanks for the clarification 5L5. This will save a lot of money, as I'll have almost everything needed.

Another question about the dust shields. Not doubting what you said but, I was looking on 50resto and they list front dust shields for 94-95, 96-98, and 99-04 separately at different prices. Any idea why that is, or is it a sly cashgrab based on their demand?

Also, do you think two different offset wheels would adversely affect the cars handling/steering (I really have no clue)? When I used to be in the import scene, I know a lot of guys would run bigger offset wheels in the back of whatever car so they could fit a wider wheel. However, if you asked how their cars handled you'd get the canned it's tight or handles AMAZING response.

Does anyone on here have S197 9" wheels with SN95 length axles successfully installed on their Fox? To me it seems similar to running the extra offset 95 Cobra wheel Ford used to sell, that complimented the M2300K kit.


The Cobra R Wheels Ford used to sell were 17x9s with 6.42" of Backspace, I have actually found some Bullitts with that exact spec except they only come in Black, I have been thinking of buying them and having them painted to match my 17x8 Stock Ford Bullitts.
 
Shaker, do you have a link for the wheels/company? I happen to be getting black bullitts :nice:

A 235 up front and a 255 out back will work, but 255's on 9" wheels are stretched. I recommend 275's. Let me show you the front pics of my car. I have early fenders too, and with both 17X8 245-45-R17's up front, I still have clearance. I even had clearance with 275-40-R17's on my 17X9 +24mm Cobra R wheels up front.
I think for the first set of tires, smaller will be safer. I've run BFGs and Sumi's, and the consensus seems to be they are on the wider side compared to others. Currently I have 245-50-16s on the rear (albeit 7" wide wheel), and don't like the ballooned appearance, while the 225s on the front are perfect looking from the sidewall, they just look too tiny outback. I may get away with 245s upfront, but I do have the GT skirt extensions as well. After reading other setups it seems 50/50 with rubbing issues using 245s and 87-91GTs, although a lot of what I've read doesn't disclose which year spindles are used.

Thanks so much for the help SVT, good and clear insight.