What waterpump on FRPP crate motor?

[Tim65GT]

I have FRPP part number M-6007-XE3M crate motor. I developed a leak at the WP (probably from the constant removal of bolts when fabricating the brackets for the serpentine drive). I replaced the backplate to Timing cover Gasket a year ago when i installed the engine, but didn't replace the backplate to WP gasket.

Anyway, I took the pump to the local parts place to match up the gaskets and couldn't find anything. What application do I ask for at the parts counter? I tried '95 Mustang 5.0, but the backplate to WP gasket wasn't right near one of the short backplate bolts. I called the Ford Racing tech line and no answer.

This is what it states in the engine instruction sheet:

PARTS REQUIRED TO COMPLETE THE ENGINE:
Water Pump and Plate:
The front cover and water pump supplied are for a reverse rotation serpentine style system. Some serpentine systems may also require a different timing chain cover and water pump. A V-belt system may require a different front cover to use your standard rotation water pump.

This is the waterpump, plate and gaskets:

WP is PN: F5TE 8505-C4A

and Timing cover PN: RF-E7PE-6059-AA

 

[BornInAFord]

Tim,
You may try a 1996 Explorer 5.0L water pump. That pump looks just like the one that came on my Explorer engine. If that doesn't work, a 1995 F150 5.0L waterpump should work since that's what the F5TE part number on the water pump is coding for.

Good luck finding the gasket.

Daniel

 

[Tim65GT]

Thanx, I'll try those.

 

[D.Hearne]

You've got a reverse rotation pump on a std rotation timing cover. See the pics I have of both here baddad457 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting The timing covers are on page 2 there. The one without the fuel pump boss is the one that fits your waterpump. The one with the fuel pump boss is a std rotation cover and the only reverse pump that fits it is the 79-85 Mustang pump. If you'll notice, the coolant ports are reversed from each cover. Your pump will bolt up to the std cover, but the ports don't match the flanges, that's the source of your leaks. The Explorer pump doesn't fit either of these covers at all. It requires a completely different timing cover. That cover was used on the 88-93 T-Bird/Cougar 5.0 , the 94-95 Stang 5.0 and the 96-2001 Explorer/Mountaineer 5.0

 

[BornInAFord]

That makes sense. Thanks, Dave! The pump looked like my Explorer 5.0L pump. I didn't look closely at the timing cover and plate.

 

[Tim65GT]

Thanks, I never realized when I took the back plate off that the swirl of the reverse flow pump doesn't match the swirl of the timing cover. I guess it doesn't matter since the holes in the backplate are round. In my case it's also acting like an "adapter". I think a lot of the FRPP SBF crate engines are like that because they have the timing cover with the Mech fuel pump boss.

I went to another Checker (the local warehouse) and the counter guy was able to match them up easily. Both for under $6. He wasn't able to tell me the application, but now that I have the right gaskets, the WP to backplate is Fel Pro Part # 35380 used on 86-95 SBFs
and the WP to timing cover is Fel-Pro # 35211 which is used on 65-95 SBFs

Just in case anyone else hase an issue. Thanks again guys.

 

[D.Hearne]

Thanks, I never realized when I took the back plate off that the swirl of the reverse flow pump doesn't match the swirl of the timing cover. I guess it doesn't matter since the holes in the backplate are round. In my case it's also acting like an "adapter". I think a lot of the FRPP SBF crate engines are like that because they have the timing cover with the Mech fuel pump boss.
.

I figured that much, that's a piss-poor way to adapt a pump to a cover that doesn't match. Someone at Ford Racing wasn't doing their job here. All they had to do was use the 79-85 Mustang pump to make it work the way it should. The Mustang pump doesn't cool as well as the 86-93 pump and matching cover does, but it's a damn sure better way to go about this than what they did. The revision in 86 (the revised porting on the front of the cover)was to improve the cooling over what the 79-85 reverse pump on the std cover did.

 

[mr-fixit]

I figured that much, that's a piss-poor way to adapt a pump to a cover that doesn't match. Someone at Ford Racing wasn't doing their job here. All they had to do was use the 79-85 Mustang pump to make it work the way it should. The Mustang pump doesn't cool as well as the 86-93 pump and matching cover does, but it's a damn sure better way to go about this than what they did. The revision in 86 (the revised porting on the front of the cover)was to improve the cooling over what the 79-85 reverse pump on the std cover did.

I'm also a bit confused by this standard rotation, reverse rotation pump thing. The part number on the timing cover pictured is E7 87), so wouldn't a reverse rotation pump be factory correct? I just purchased a timing cover from Ford Motorsport, it looks like the one pictured, and the description says it is for either pump. The reverse rotation pump I bought (86-93 style) just has round holes in the back Will this work?

 

[D.Hearne]

I'm also a bit confused by this standard rotation, reverse rotation pump thing. The part number on the timing cover pictured is E7 87), so wouldn't a reverse rotation pump be factory correct? I just purchased a timing cover from Ford Motorsport, it looks like the one pictured, and the description says it is for either pump. The reverse rotation pump I bought (86-93 style) just has round holes in the back Will this work?

If you'll go look at the two covers on my photobucket site,(see the link above in post #4) you'll see what I'm refering to here. The 86-up pump will physically bolt up to the std rotation timing cover, but the ports are reversed and do not match the porting on the std rotation cover. Ford actually had 4 different reverse rotation waterpumps. The 1st was the 79-85 pump, which does match up and fit the std rotation timing cover. It however was lacking in efficiency due to the impeller spinning backwards. Because of this, the coolant had to make (in effect) a U turn to enter the coolant ports in the std rotation cover. To correct this, Ford in 1986 redesigned the timing cover for the Mustang and reversed the porting (see my photobucket pics) and the waterpump to work better in the rotation it was turning. This pump was also used on the 86-97 pickup and van 5.0's, along with the 351W in these applications. The other two reverse pumps are the 88-93 T-Bird/Cougar & 94-95 Stang (same pump for all three) and the final version of the reverse pumps, the 96-2001 Explorer/Mountaineer. This pump is slightly different from the T-bird/Cougar/Mustang pump but fits the same timing cover. The E7 prefix on that std rotation cover was for the application it was used in: the 86-91 Crown Vic/Towncar/Marquis 5.0, in which all three used a std rotation waterpump. Apparently whoever edited Ford Racing's catalog isnn't the only person confused by all the revisions over the years in the Front End Accessory Drives ( refered to as "FEAD" by Ford) Once again I'll state that the ONLY reverse rotation pump that fits (correctly) and works with the std rotation cover (albeit not the best efficiency in operation though) is the 79-85 Mustang pump. The steel backing plate pictured above is basically a bandaid approach to adapt the wrong pump to the std rotation cover. It apparently works, until the waterpump bolts loosen and release the compression on the gaskets.

 

[4bangerstang]

After reading through this thread I believe this to be the problem with my leak. I put the FRPP timing cover on my 331 that Summit said was a 87-93 Mustang timing cover. I see now that it was not. It's for a standard rotation pump (grooved serpentine pulley), which I did have at first, but I have since went back to a reverse rotation pump (smooth serpentine pulley). So now I'm looking to get the right timing cover on there, so I can finally button up this 331 and get rid of my leak.

Is this the right timing cover that I need for my reverse rotation pump? This one doesn't have the tab hanging off the right side, which the only thing I can think of is the strap for my wiring harness was bolted onto the engine in that same area, but I can figure something out.

Edelbrock 4251 - Edelbrock Aluminum Timing Covers - Overview - SummitRacing.com