5.0 Mustang-this months Q&A????

[88-378]

I was reading the new issue and in the Q&A in the back a reader asked about a 331 stroker.

The answer basically said a stroker with a good set of heads can easily acheive 450hp.

Now i know they are talking at the crank, but 450 is not easily made with this combination!!

 

[Riceslayer302.0]

does anybody really even pay for those magazines anymore? lol

 

[S&B]

i read that today i scratched my head as well

 

[NIKwoaC]

I was reading the new issue and in the Q&A in the back a reader asked about a 331 stroker.

The answer basically said a stroker with a good set of heads can easily acheive 450hp.

Now i know they are talking at the crank, but 450 is not easily made with this combination!!

Eh, I'd agree with what they said. A 331 with heads that flow 300+ CFM intake, 220+ exhaust, a properly matched cam with no less than .550 lift, a decent size intake like a Eddie RPM 2, SysteMax, or TrickFlow R, 10:1+ CR, and with all the supporting goodies should make peak HP around 63-6500 RPM and achieve 450 in theory.

MM&FF just made almost 460 hp with a carbed, 10:1 347 with TrickFlow 185 CNC heads and an OTS cam. That thing made peak HP around 6 grand, IIRC, so there was more to be had with a bigger cam and higher RPM. It's not rocket science, you just need to let the thing breathe and match the parts right.

What you also have to realize is that an engine on an engine dyno has NO accessories, NO water pump drag (usually), HUGE straight-through dyno exhaust, NO heat soak, and a constant supply of fresh, cool air. Under these conditions, 450 hp on an engine dyno might equate to something like 375-390 rwhp. If you've ever seen a "stock" 5.0 run on an engine dyno, they usually end up making ~250 hp, even though Ford tells us they only made 225 in factory trim. That 11% difference comes from lack of accessories, free flowing dyno exhaust, etc.

 

[88-378]

Eh, I'd agree with what they said. A 331 with heads that flow 300+ CFM intake, 220+ exhaust, a properly matched cam with no less than .550 lift, a decent size intake like a Eddie RPM 2, SysteMax, or TrickFlow R, 10:1+ CR, and with all the supporting goodies should make peak HP around 63-6500 RPM and achieve 450 in theory.

MM&FF just made almost 460 hp with a carbed, 10:1 347 with TrickFlow 185 CNC heads and an OTS cam. That thing made peak HP around 6 grand, IIRC, so there was more to be had with a bigger cam and higher RPM. It's not rocket science, you just need to let the thing breathe and match the parts right.

What you also have to realize is that an engine on an engine dyno has NO accessories, NO water pump drag (usually), HUGE straight-through dyno exhaust, NO heat soak, and a constant supply of fresh, cool air. Under these conditions, 450 hp on an engine dyno might equate to something like 375-390 rwhp. If you've ever seen a "stock" 5.0 run on an engine dyno, they usually end up making ~250 hp, even though Ford tells us they only made 225 in factory trim. That 11% difference comes from lack of accessories, free flowing dyno exhaust, etc.

No way! unless it has a solid cam and a carb! and taken to 7K.

My setup was tuned by 10.5 outlaw racer Brad Brand! and I used the BEST parts available! I wasn't restricted with money!

 

[NIKwoaC]

No way! unless it has a solid cam and a carb! and taken to 7K.

My setup was tuned by 10.5 outlaw racer Brad Brand! and I used the BEST parts available! I wasn't restricted with money!

I'm not lying to you buddy. I, in no way mean to say anything bad about your car, but just because you didn't do it, doesn't mean others haven't/can't.

Is your current setup in your sig? Did you have your heads flow tested after the porting? The intake?

 

[Shaolin Crane]

I'm not lying to you buddy. I, in no way mean to say anything bad about your car, but just because you didn't do it, doesn't mean others haven't/can't.

Is your current setup in your sig? Did you have your heads flow tested after the porting? The intake?

I agree, the 165's are great heads but they wont flow 300cfm

 

[88-378]

They are the comp heads from AFR. I spoke with Tony Mamo directly about my setup.

I am not worried that I didn't make it to 450 at the crank. I hit right around 400.

But, my point is, hitting 450 with a 331 and TFS heads ain't easy! And when you consider fuel injection and a hyd. roller???

Maybe I can with another cam, but i really don't want to spin a street motor too high.

 

[NIKwoaC]

They are the comp heads from AFR. I spoke with Tony Mamo directly about my setup.

I am not worried that I didn't make it to 450 at the crank. I hit right around 400.

But, my point is, hitting 450 with a 331 and TFS heads ain't easy! And when you consider fuel injection and a hyd. roller???

Maybe I can with another cam, but i really don't want to spin a street motor too high.

That 347 I mentioned above was hydraulic roller. It used the factory 5.0 lifter setup and made 456 hp at 6000 rpm. Those TrickFlow heads have advertised flow rates of 301/231 CFM at .600" lift. AFR's website shows the Competition 165s at 254/218 @ .600".

Not that peak lift flow numbers tell the whole story in how an engine will perform, but you get the idea.

 

[russ1979]

it seemed a little off to me also.

most 331's seem to be maybe around 400ish at the crank

 

[90lxcoupe]

But, my point is, hitting 450 with a 331 and TFS heads ain't easy! And when you consider fuel injection and a hyd. roller???

Maybe I can with another cam, but i really don't want to spin a street motor too high.

YES it is that easy, bolt a CNC'd or even FAC trick flow head with good supporting parts and you will get very close to that number give or take 10 hp, its been done many times, just cause your motor didnt do it dosent mean that you can discredit what others have achieved. You could do it with a better cylinder head and better planned out parts


With a solid roller it should make more like 500+hp

My setup was tuned by 10.5 outlaw racer Brad Brand! and I used the BEST parts available! I wasn't restricted with money!

then why did you use an off the shelf cam and are still running a cobra lower?

 

[92GreenGT]

Yeah, I think I'd be very pissed if I spent that much money on a 331 and it didn't make 450hp on an engine dyno.

*shrug*

 

[cjrpony]

That 347 I mentioned above was hydraulic roller. It used the factory 5.0 lifter setup and made 456 hp at 6000 rpm. Those TrickFlow heads have advertised flow rates of 301/231 CFM at .600" lift. AFR's website shows the Competition 165s at 254/218 @ .600".

Not that peak lift flow numbers tell the whole story in how an engine will perform, but you get the idea.

Are you refering to the MMFF Ultimate Guide to 5.0 Heads article? They also tested 9 different off the shelf heads on a 331 with I believe the same XE274HR cam (I run this cam also) as the OP and 6 of them peaked over at 430HP or better. Most of them peaked at or under 6K RPM also. This was carbed also, but with unmodified heads and OTS cam that seems pretty good. So 450 with worked heads and custom cam are probably very realistic. Someday soon I would like to have my combo dyno'd and find out how it does.

Unltimate Guide to 5.0 Cylnder Heads, Part 4

 

[NIKwoaC]

Are you refering to the MMFF Ultimate Guide to 5.0 Heads article? They also tested 9 different off the shelf heads on a 331 with I believe the same XE274HR cam (I run this cam also) as the OP and 6 of them peaked over at 430HP or better. Most of them peaked at or under 6K RPM also. This was carbed also, but with unmodified heads and OTS cam that seems pretty good. So 450 with worked heads and custom cam are probably very realistic. Someday soon I would like to have my combo dyno'd and find out how it does.

Unltimate Guide to 5.0 Cylnder Heads, Part 4

That's not the article I'm talking about, but that IS a perfect example. Look at how the AFR 185s made 448 hp @ 6100 rpm. It almost looks like the hp curve was still climbing when they shut it off at 6100.

 

[Cobra912]

All their numbers are inflated including the cost of their magazine!

 

[MAC'n89Blckstng]

+1 that making 450 crank with a 331 is feasable.

 

[1990Coupe]

I just get the subscription.. 15 bucks for a 18 issues is worth it to me.

 

[russ1979]

i love both the mag's

 

[Cobra912]

I just get the subscription.. 15 bucks for a 18 issues is worth it to me.

well I'm not too bright paying 6.99 Canadian every issue.......and I guess I'm a bit jealous I had to make 450+ with my 331 using a blower.....

 

[cjrpony]

I got both magazines for years and I have stacks of them in the garage. I quit getting them in 2004 because it seemed like the same articles over and over again. And I quit getting Car Craft because it was really Chevy Craft.