i have a 94 mustang with a 331 stroker bottom end. dish top pistons. i have trick flow twisted wedge heads i think they are 175 cc. i have a trick flow intake 75 mm throttle body 95 mm mass air flow 30 lb injectors 255 lph fuel pump, .574/.595 cam shaft, msd 6al box, i am running bbk long tube headers into bbk x pipe then 2.5 inch stright pipes out the back, no cats and no mufflers. how much horse power do you think it has?
how much horsepower?
- Thread starter brettlanphere
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Dino Dino Bambino
15 Year Member
im not sure about the other cam specs to be honest. my buddy helped me build it a couple years ago he picked out all the parts.
you say the cam is too big rev? do i need to port out the heads some more? what do you recommend? i would like to see 500 fly wheel horse out of this car. a desktop dyno says i am close but i have not had it on the dyno yet because i keep taking the car apart and putting it back together.
you say the cam is too big rev? do i need to port out the heads some more? what do you recommend? i would like to see 500 fly wheel horse out of this car. a desktop dyno says i am close but i have not had it on the dyno yet because i keep taking the car apart and putting it back together.
Just have it dynoed if you are curious. The cam spec's listed are vague at best. I doubt the cam is big at all but you didn't post much of anything about it so we can't say. With dish pistons and a 'guessing game cam', I doubt it will make the numbers it's capable of.
500 motor would be about 425 at the wheels ... STICK TRANS 
Not impossible I don't guess
but
If understand things from reading here
A VERY WELL thought out plan :Word:
with
Specific methods most likely needs to be put in place
I don't know how streetable such a combo would be
I myself can't offer specifics
A bit of research on your part looking at what results others with 331's
have accomplished would be my first step in knowing if it is possible
I'd say with you wanting to pull that much NA performance
I woulda told you to consider a 347 as opposed to the smaller 331
Grady
Not impossible I don't guess
but
If understand things from reading here
A VERY WELL thought out plan :Word:
with
Specific methods most likely needs to be put in place
I don't know how streetable such a combo would be
I myself can't offer specifics
A bit of research on your part looking at what results others with 331's
have accomplished would be my first step in knowing if it is possible
I'd say with you wanting to pull that much NA performance
I woulda told you to consider a 347 as opposed to the smaller 331
Grady
It's probably a Trick Flow 3 cam. Which I have a spare, if anyone wants one. That's the exact lift for a Trick Flow 3 cam. It would make sense, because it had Trick Flow heads on it, and someone thought they were smart by putting a Trick Flow cam with Trick Flow heads. Unfortunately, that cam is ground for the big Trick Flow 205cc Twisted Wedge R heads.
Not going to hit 500 crank hp without a power adder. Those heads are nice, but they are just too small. I wouldn't worry about trying to make 500 crank hp N/A. You got a nice engine there, just swap out the cam. Making 500 crank hp is going to mean redoing the whole engine. More compression, bigger heads, and all that noise. I wouldn't bother redoing the whole bottom end to make it a 347. There wouldn't be a whole lot more power gain with the extra .15" stroke.
I'd get a custom ground cam, and have some fun. Check the valve springs on the heads while you are at it. If it had the valve springs that came with those heads, the cam probably tore them up. I'd change them and the cam. It'll make the car nicer to drive too.
Kurt
Not going to hit 500 crank hp without a power adder. Those heads are nice, but they are just too small. I wouldn't worry about trying to make 500 crank hp N/A. You got a nice engine there, just swap out the cam. Making 500 crank hp is going to mean redoing the whole engine. More compression, bigger heads, and all that noise. I wouldn't bother redoing the whole bottom end to make it a 347. There wouldn't be a whole lot more power gain with the extra .15" stroke.
I'd get a custom ground cam, and have some fun. Check the valve springs on the heads while you are at it. If it had the valve springs that came with those heads, the cam probably tore them up. I'd change them and the cam. It'll make the car nicer to drive too.
Kurt
thanks for your input you guys have been very helpful. kurt u are right. it is a trick flow cam. i hope you dont mind me picking your brains... but could i port those twisted wedge heads out to support the cam? i called trick flow and they said that head can be ported well past 300. also i have considered a vortech 6 psi supercharger to finish the engine. what should i do with the heads and the intake? its a track heat intake. and about the springs.. i know we updated the springs to support the camshaft so we are okay there.
Oh, see if you can drag up some receipts on that engine. You're going to want to know a few things, like what kind of pistons you have. Compression ratio is going to be a big part of matching up some good parts for the flow combo.
If you really want 500hp, you might want to consider throwing a blower on it. Be a lot cheaper than redoing the whole engine.
Kurt
If you really want 500hp, you might want to consider throwing a blower on it. Be a lot cheaper than redoing the whole engine.
Kurt
ya i know. i have made some mistakes with this engine. it was originally bolt ons.. then a head and cam swap.. then things just got out of hand. i know you have been there, never fast enough. assuming that i am going to super charge it, what should i do about the porting? i know i have to have my mind up one way or the other because it will make a huge difference. at this point i want to save up four grand and throw a super charger on it and i found a machine shop to port and polish for 600 then they will tune for 450. not a bad deal but i only wanna do this once. my buddy has kinda pointed me in the wrong direction and i came into this car knowing nothing. i have learned a lot but still dont know much. i really appreciate your help guys...
If your going to boost it dont bother to port anything. All you will do is lower the amount of boost you will produce unless you do a pulley change. The more airflow you create the less boost you will produce, if you hog out your heads you now have then you will see less PSI over all. Thats why I saw 10-12 PSI on the dyno w/ my 95 GT with Stock E7 heads b/c the airflow stucked NA but boosted it could really cram a lot of air into the engine creating much more boost.
okay. will the supercharger work with that big cam or do i still need to get rid of the camshaft? i cant go over 6 psi boost... they say that the cast 302 blocks explode when boosted too much... unless i have been lied to. and im glad to hear that i do not have to port these heads. thats some money i can save. lol
you were lied to, your block wont explode. I had a stock 302 block and it saw 10 PSI of boost many times when I had it and quite a few guys here do it all the time. It all depends on your tune, if its tuned safe and you have the proper fuel support meaning big enough injectors and fuel pump them you will be fine. As far as the cam I'm not sure how well that would or would not work as a blower cam, some other guys cam speak more on that.
Take the money you save on porting and sell the #30lb injectors and get #42's and a 255lph fuel pump and you will be set in that department.
Take the money you save on porting and sell the #30lb injectors and get #42's and a 255lph fuel pump and you will be set in that department.
Dino Dino Bambino
15 Year Member
Agree. It's indeed the TFS Stage 3 cam so it's definitely too big. The CompCams XE274HR-12 would be a vast improvement but you'd do even better to talk to Jay Allen or Buddy Rawls about getting a custom cam.
BlackVert
15 Year Member
that cam would not be very good with a blower ... too much overlap. so you have no idea what the compression is or what pistons it has?
in either case, it seems to me you have 2 choices:
- get the heads ported and stay NA
- swap the cam and boost it
if i were in your position, having what i've been through, i would swap the cam to a boost friendly grind. then you can run low octane gas while it is NA and you will be ready for a turbo when funds allow. and i'd go with 3.73 gears. as to the turbo, i'd get one that spools up at about 2800 rpm. then it would be a very streetable ride, until you mashed the pedal
in either case, it seems to me you have 2 choices:
- get the heads ported and stay NA
- swap the cam and boost it
if i were in your position, having what i've been through, i would swap the cam to a boost friendly grind. then you can run low octane gas while it is NA and you will be ready for a turbo when funds allow. and i'd go with 3.73 gears. as to the turbo, i'd get one that spools up at about 2800 rpm. then it would be a very streetable ride, until you mashed the pedal
That's kind of a common mis understanding. Porting will lower the manifold pressure reading, but that's a good thing. Remember, a boost gauge does not measure how much air is getting into the engine, it measures how much air is not getting into the engine. Think of it as a back pressure gauge.
That being said, I wouldn't waste any money on port work. You might squeeze an extra 20 cfms out of the heads, but that's about it. With a blower and that kind of displacement with Twisted Wedge heads that flow pretty well already, you'll be able to make block splitting power with the blower. Not that you will split your block with a blower, but you can definately make enough power to do it with the right pulley.
The cam has definately got to go. If you intend to put a blower or turbo on it, get a cam ground for that. A blower cam is not going to make optimum power N/A. The big Trick Flow cam is going to surrender all your precious boost into the exhaust before it has time to burn.
When I say have your numbers together, I mean get all the data you can on the engine. The most important thing to find is to track down the part numbers for the pistons. You're going to want to have a good compression ratio number for the cam guy. I'd spend $500 with Ed Curtis or Jay Allen to get a nice blower cam with matching valve springs.
Kurt
switch the cam and boost it. 400 rwhp can be done with a 331, but it takes a lot more planning and execution. if you really really wanted a 311 n/a to hit 500, i'd start over from scratch. boosting it is easier and cheaper. and more fun if you ask me.
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