Build Thread 1978 Fairmont. I bet somebody back home’s thinkin’…I wonder why he don’t write..?
- Thread starter CarMichael Angelo
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- Mar 7, 2002
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Those aerocatches look like there is some margin for error. They have a lip that goes over the top of the hood.
Kurt
Kurt
Seems like you’re pretty excited about the power this motor is making. Are you changing your stance on “you don’t need more than 500 HP on the street”?
For those betting one way or the other on the aerocatch hood latch conversion,..i never got that far.
Steve was in the car virtually at 9 am this morning along with me and my #1 son. When I started it the engine died strait away. He pointed out the sync loss that he saw, but we restarted the car, and it ran. after about 15 minutes, the car was running well enough to go out and beat it.
We started with a 2nd gear roll to 6500 rpm.. He says you’re only making 11 psi. I said it’s a 15 pound gate, I’m almost positive it’s making gate pressure,...I’ll do this again from first...
The first time the car got away from me on the 1-2 shift,....so the second time around, I made sure we had a straight away to work with.
But Again......11 psi.
I said we need to fix that, that’s for sure, and I need to get it to a place where the roads are wide.
* We‘ll just jump to the end here..
After a few adjustments, and a couple of pulls, the last 1-2 full throttle pull made 22 psi. At 22 psi,..the car is dancing around like driving on 7.00 x29.5 drag slicks.
( only a few here may know how that feels,..but suffice it to say,..it’s a little dicey)
I can control it, but when it gets into high boost, not only is this thing stroking, but a screeching noise starts like a belt is slipping. As soon as you lift, it stops.
#1 Says,..” This fcker is fast”. (This being the guy who daily drives a 2018 5.0 as a reference)
I said you’re supposed to video this sht,...he says I’m too busy holding on.
Its fast, but there is zero bottom end. The lag is so miserable, like I said before, you can literally count to three before it starts strolling. At 4500 rpm stuff gets going, but Jesus!, You can almost read a book by the time 4500 gets there. But once it does...
Hold the fck on.
I decide I need to return home to check out what’s going on under the hood,..by now, the old monster engine bay would look like an environmental disaster, and stuff would be pouring out from under.
We get there,..let it idle, and shut it off. I pop the hood...nothin but clean.
I look under, nothing dripping.
We restart,...it’s hard to restart. Steve makes an adjustment, it restarts but now it’s surging. After a minute it cools out and starts running decently. I rev it to 6500 to see if that screech is a belt, or an idler pulley bearing,..but no noise..it’s definitely tied to something to do with boost.
We shut it back off. Discussing the turbo lag...I say, Ill bet the thing won’t even do a burn out...Steve says ( kinda under his breath)..We can try. I laugh...You’re always up for trying stuff aren’t you Steve?
I try to start it.
Sync loss...It is back to doing the same thing it did in spring...Crank but no fire.
Im mad now,..frustrated that this thing is still plagued with no-start bugs. I say we’re done,...Steve thinks I should wait till it cools, and see if it’ll restart,..I agree but, it’s 200 degrees now, it’s gonna be awhile before it cools enough to try that out.
#1 and I push it back in, and we go eat. When I get back, he leaves. I go straight into the garage and attempt a restart.
it starts. I put it in the air, remove the AC compressor, and test the crank position sensor. ( it’s supposed to have an impedance range between like 850-1400 ohms.) The multimeter reads immediately one number, then flashes to another number, then goes to 1. Every time you do it, it’s a different number except the 1.
The crank position sensor is the factory unit IIRC. Now going on 20+ years old...I ordered a new one from O reilly’s, and it’ll be here tomorrow. Nobody in the entire city stocks one. ( Whadya wanna bet if it was for an LS or a Coyote, every store woulda had one)? It’s what they stock. Who knows if it’s crap or not.
Since i couldn’t do anything else, i modded the exhaust. The way it is now, it’s too damn close to the trans pan when it turns from one side to get to the other. I cut 10” out of one leg, and extended the other, effectively moving the turn back 10”.
The Catalytic converter that I put on there a few years back is completely hollow I looked inside that thing and found absolutely nothing left inside. Had I had a piece of 3“ tubing that was long enough, Idve just cut that bitch off of there, and replaced it with a straight pipe, but since I only had the 10” section I cut out of the rear leg,..I had to leave it in place. It’s hollow anyway, it’s just the janky factor of leaving that worthless thing there that bugs me.
So,..that’s it.
I got a really fast car, if you don’t count how long it takes to get there, or if you’re not talking about cars that actually start and run, and then restart and run again.
Of all of the really fast 2jz’s out there, most of the vids are of manual equipped cars, with an unknown turbo. If i have to, ill upgrade my mono scroll chinee turbo to a twin scroll piece to try and get rid of the lag...I just don’t know if that’s what’s wrong here.
And I’ve got a screech. Internet searches say it’s a boost leak, One in particular said that the stainless gasket that goes under the turbo flange could act like a reed valve and shrieked like a bad saxophone if the seal isn’t tight..( mine sounds like that, but I just put a new gasket there and tightened the piss outta those bolts though) Another says that his BOV gasket was blown,..and the noise sounded like an air balloon that you pinched at the neck while letting out the air...( mine kinda sounds like that too)
Yet another found pinholes in a silicone coupler...
Who fckin knows?
Steve was in the car virtually at 9 am this morning along with me and my #1 son. When I started it the engine died strait away. He pointed out the sync loss that he saw, but we restarted the car, and it ran. after about 15 minutes, the car was running well enough to go out and beat it.
We started with a 2nd gear roll to 6500 rpm.. He says you’re only making 11 psi. I said it’s a 15 pound gate, I’m almost positive it’s making gate pressure,...I’ll do this again from first...
The first time the car got away from me on the 1-2 shift,....so the second time around, I made sure we had a straight away to work with.
But Again......11 psi.
I said we need to fix that, that’s for sure, and I need to get it to a place where the roads are wide.
* We‘ll just jump to the end here..
After a few adjustments, and a couple of pulls, the last 1-2 full throttle pull made 22 psi. At 22 psi,..the car is dancing around like driving on 7.00 x29.5 drag slicks.
( only a few here may know how that feels,..but suffice it to say,..it’s a little dicey)
I can control it, but when it gets into high boost, not only is this thing stroking, but a screeching noise starts like a belt is slipping. As soon as you lift, it stops.
#1 Says,..” This fcker is fast”. (This being the guy who daily drives a 2018 5.0 as a reference)
I said you’re supposed to video this sht,...he says I’m too busy holding on.
Its fast, but there is zero bottom end. The lag is so miserable, like I said before, you can literally count to three before it starts strolling. At 4500 rpm stuff gets going, but Jesus!, You can almost read a book by the time 4500 gets there. But once it does...
Hold the fck on.
I decide I need to return home to check out what’s going on under the hood,..by now, the old monster engine bay would look like an environmental disaster, and stuff would be pouring out from under.
We get there,..let it idle, and shut it off. I pop the hood...nothin but clean.
I look under, nothing dripping.
We restart,...it’s hard to restart. Steve makes an adjustment, it restarts but now it’s surging. After a minute it cools out and starts running decently. I rev it to 6500 to see if that screech is a belt, or an idler pulley bearing,..but no noise..it’s definitely tied to something to do with boost.
We shut it back off. Discussing the turbo lag...I say, Ill bet the thing won’t even do a burn out...Steve says ( kinda under his breath)..We can try. I laugh...You’re always up for trying stuff aren’t you Steve?
I try to start it.
Sync loss...It is back to doing the same thing it did in spring...Crank but no fire.
Im mad now,..frustrated that this thing is still plagued with no-start bugs. I say we’re done,...Steve thinks I should wait till it cools, and see if it’ll restart,..I agree but, it’s 200 degrees now, it’s gonna be awhile before it cools enough to try that out.
#1 and I push it back in, and we go eat. When I get back, he leaves. I go straight into the garage and attempt a restart.
it starts. I put it in the air, remove the AC compressor, and test the crank position sensor. ( it’s supposed to have an impedance range between like 850-1400 ohms.) The multimeter reads immediately one number, then flashes to another number, then goes to 1. Every time you do it, it’s a different number except the 1.
The crank position sensor is the factory unit IIRC. Now going on 20+ years old...I ordered a new one from O reilly’s, and it’ll be here tomorrow. Nobody in the entire city stocks one. ( Whadya wanna bet if it was for an LS or a Coyote, every store woulda had one)? It’s what they stock. Who knows if it’s crap or not.
Since i couldn’t do anything else, i modded the exhaust. The way it is now, it’s too damn close to the trans pan when it turns from one side to get to the other. I cut 10” out of one leg, and extended the other, effectively moving the turn back 10”.
The Catalytic converter that I put on there a few years back is completely hollow I looked inside that thing and found absolutely nothing left inside. Had I had a piece of 3“ tubing that was long enough, Idve just cut that bitch off of there, and replaced it with a straight pipe, but since I only had the 10” section I cut out of the rear leg,..I had to leave it in place. It’s hollow anyway, it’s just the janky factor of leaving that worthless thing there that bugs me.
So,..that’s it.
I got a really fast car, if you don’t count how long it takes to get there, or if you’re not talking about cars that actually start and run, and then restart and run again.
Of all of the really fast 2jz’s out there, most of the vids are of manual equipped cars, with an unknown turbo. If i have to, ill upgrade my mono scroll chinee turbo to a twin scroll piece to try and get rid of the lag...I just don’t know if that’s what’s wrong here.
And I’ve got a screech. Internet searches say it’s a boost leak, One in particular said that the stainless gasket that goes under the turbo flange could act like a reed valve and shrieked like a bad saxophone if the seal isn’t tight..( mine sounds like that, but I just put a new gasket there and tightened the piss outta those bolts though) Another says that his BOV gasket was blown,..and the noise sounded like an air balloon that you pinched at the neck while letting out the air...( mine kinda sounds like that too)
Yet another found pinholes in a silicone coupler...
Who fckin knows?
Last edited:
He's playing to the intellectual seats.
That said, I do find the new combo very impressive. It'll be worth it once all the bugs are worked out.
Uhhhhhhhh..nooo?
It’s the same turbo that worked great on a 4 liter, long stroke, high compression engine that made boost off idle, I figure it should work on a 3 liter, short stroke, low compression engine just the same right?
Im probably gonna send the tires back, and re-invest that money in a proper setup. I’m on the right path now...I can get from G-Z now,..I just gotta get from A-Fast a lot quicker.
With a sound recording, I could tell you what kind of reed and instrument to look for. I can even help with a player piano scroll. But for the rest, you are way off the path to normal speed-ville, and some of us are just along for the ride.
The fix for slow turbocharger spool up...
Water injection can also work for turbochargers. Water injected into the exhaust gas stream before the turbine will flash to steam, greatly increasing the mass airflow going to the turbine and exhaust pressure seen by the turbo and engine. This will making the turbine spin up quicker, the down side is the increased back pressure created by the steam. The water won't last very long for anything but short bursts of acceleration.
Uhhhhhhhh..nooo?
It’s the same turbo that worked great on a 4 liter, long stroke, high compression engine that made boost off idle, I figure it should work on a 3 liter, short stroke, low compression engine just the same right?
Im probably gonna send the tires back, and re-invest that money in a proper setup. I’m on the right path now...I can get from G-Z now,..I just gotta get from A-Fast a lot quicker.
Yeah, that sucks man. Everything is twin scroll now. I had an MR2 which had the same CT26 turbo that 2jz had originally, and the thing was a damn pig. I even had the turbine blades trimmed, and it helped a little bit, but not enough. Do you have a T4 or a T6 flange on it? The hard reality is that the best way to get rid of the turbo lag is to get a modern turbocharger. I've been hanging around the dyno with these guys running Borg Warner S48x series turbochargers, and the boost response is recockulous. Doesn't matter what speed or RPM you peg the gas, the boost gauge pegs out in less than 1/2 a second.
KLurt
The good thing ( if it can be considered that) is the turbo is a 269.00 Chinee piece. I’ll not bleed bad to put it on a shelf.
The exhaust manifold, is a little more painful,..I think it cost 500 it is a T4 flange.But regardless, the current combo won’t impact how the car runs just driving it ( like the kind I’ll be doing a week from thursday.) I know stuff works now,..the front end alignment put it back to where it was. when i used to be able to drive it while spinning the tires through 1/2 gear.
I’ll get my tool boxes paid for, and start looking for the right stuff to make this thing work from the jump.
I actually consider that to be a bad thing. I wouldn't shed a tear over a Chinee turbo, it's the fact that thing is going to puke it's guts upstream of your 2jz, and 2js's are not cheap these days. A free market turbo even on a T4 flange is the real solution to your current disposition.
Kurt
Is the turbo flange on the turbo and header flat? My educated guess is not exactly and that is creating your leak at the turbo. Does it build boost if you bring it up on the stall using the brakes?
And since you've got time/money/and a desire to do things no one else would....COMPOUND TURBO. Small one to roast the tires at idle feeding a bigger one that breathes at 7800.
One of the better threads I've found on the subject in a gasoline not diesel application.
Compound turbos (not sequential or parallel)
And since you've got time/money/and a desire to do things no one else would....COMPOUND TURBO. Small one to roast the tires at idle feeding a bigger one that breathes at 7800.
One of the better threads I've found on the subject in a gasoline not diesel application.
Compound turbos (not sequential or parallel)
Ok then. Focusing on “what is“, instead of “what will be“, ...Im gonna return the tires.....for now.
Given that the car makes zero bottom end below 4000 rpm, the liklihood of wearing the tires out from excessive mileage rather than stopping tire spin becomes the main reason for doing that.
Spring will hopefully be a different story.
Once the dust settles from that return, Ill change out my turbo and exhaust manifold to twin scroll. I’ll probably put a Borg Warner S300SX on the engine.
The one thing i read last night that rings true for me when selecting a turbo, and it’s pretty much the same advice given when selecting a carb, was don’t go too big. And that a properly sized smaller unit will more than make up for any total power loss due to overall efficiency across the low-midrange rpm band. A S300SX is a twin scroll 60-66mm unit. It’ll end up costing about twice what the Chinee unit was ( most selling for around 600.00). I just gotta find a vendor to help me pick the right one.
Given that the car makes zero bottom end below 4000 rpm, the liklihood of wearing the tires out from excessive mileage rather than stopping tire spin becomes the main reason for doing that.
Spring will hopefully be a different story.
Once the dust settles from that return, Ill change out my turbo and exhaust manifold to twin scroll. I’ll probably put a Borg Warner S300SX on the engine.
The one thing i read last night that rings true for me when selecting a turbo, and it’s pretty much the same advice given when selecting a carb, was don’t go too big. And that a properly sized smaller unit will more than make up for any total power loss due to overall efficiency across the low-midrange rpm band. A S300SX is a twin scroll 60-66mm unit. It’ll end up costing about twice what the Chinee unit was ( most selling for around 600.00). I just gotta find a vendor to help me pick the right one.
There is no way in hell I’d go through all of that. It’s easier to admit that I got lucky just buying the Chinee turbo for the old engine, and it worked great right out of the box. But One turbo, One wastegate, One hotside/One cold side , and One set of mating surfaces is all i’m messing with.
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