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1/4 Mile Gain With Slicks?

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  • Start date Start date Dec 25, 2015
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OneWheelPeel

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#21
  • Dec 26, 2015
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Also, does mph rely on driving skill? I always understood mph to be something that will usually stay the same on your runs regardless if you got traction or not. I'm starting to think thats the wrong idea. Im not the best driver and I dont powershift. Could a good driver possibly get a higher mph?
 

Bullitt347

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#22
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Mph is usually an indicator of HP. That being said I have seen cars run the same mph but have a half second difference in E/T. So in the end mph does not mean much at all. How you use your HP is more important than what the mph is.
 
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skyline247

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#23
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Trap speed is an indication of power to weight. ET will include this and other factors such as traction. Trap speed should remain about the same on each run for similar conditions but ET can vary widely depending on the setup and the driver.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

OneWheelPeel

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#24
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Why do you think my mph varies so much? Sometimes I run 86 mph and still get a 14.3 and other times ill get 95mph and run a 14.2
 

FastDriver

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#25
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Before I get into a bunch of explanations about parts you swap to improve your combo, first I want to say again that you are not getting the full potential out of your car. On the high side, you're going to pick up around 15rwhp from the MAF/TB/Intake swap. That's only good for 1.5mph and maybe .15 in ET. I'll bet that your timing isn't quite right. You should be at ~14* timing. Get a timing light. Make sure you're running whatever fuel you always fill with. 93 octane is preferred for performance. Hit the track and make sure that each time you run, you are running at the same motor temp to ensure consistency. Start at 13* and bump 1* at a time. Drive it the same way every run. Watch for a difference in trap speed. When it stops going up, back the timing to wherever it reached the top trap speed and leave it there.

What they're saying about slicks vs. drag radials is not technically incorrect. Slicks are bias ply and some, the majority, have very soft sidewalls that absorb shock to the tires. Manuals tend to shock the drivetrain because the instant connection of the clutch causes a spike in the amount of force that is sent to the rear tire. At that point, either the tires break loose, or there's enough traction to hold the force and the drivetrain must absorb the shock. With slicks, the traction is there but the sidewalls allow some twist that absorbs some of the energy and spreads it out over time. This has a spring-like effect that reduces the spike of force. That said, going with a slick loses you the ability to drive with nice traction on the street, and it also will be slower at the track vs. a drag radial that hooks. That's because the drag radial has lower rolling resistance that I mentioned before.

Next, you're interested in knowing why trap speeds are not as affected as ETs by driving and traction. Make no mistake, trap speeds are affected by both, but the difference is that if you sit and spin off of the line, time is elapsing, but distance is not. That means you still have just as long to accelerate and when you start to hook, you're still have almost as long to go. Think about it this way at your power level, like my Black Jack, at the end of the track, you're only going to accelerate by about 2 mph through the last 60', which is how they measure trap speed. So no matter how bad you screw up the first 60', you'll never see a difference of more than 2 mph. Whereas, you could easily see a 1/2 second difference or more from a bad launch.

Put your intake on, and go with a quality mass air meter. With 3 combos, I've run the 75mm bullet from Pro-M without issue. Just make sure whatever MAF you run is tuned to the size of the injectors you have. I would recommend 24 or 30 lbs injectors. 24s will be plenty for your power level, but 30s will give you room to grow. The stock 19s may get the job done with more fuel pressure, though that makes it hard on your fuel pump and is not what I reccommend.

With your new intake, MAF, and heads, the stock throttle body will then be the most restrictive part of the intake tract and is absolutely worth some power. Those saying it wouldn't help are probably thinking about a stock intake that only has a 58mm opening and doesn't benefit from a bigger TB. A stock explorer intake has a 70mm inlet and should be matched to a 70mm TB. However, some people choose to open up that port with a die-grinder and install a 75mm TB. If I were you, I'd just slap it on as-is and add the 70mm TB when you can afford to.

A 3.55 gear is a great street gear. It gives a big advantage over the stock 2.73 gears, and one nice thing is that a 3.55 can have an exactly matched speedometer, but they're a compromise at your power level if you want the best 1/4 mile. You want a gear that puts you through the traps at the very top of 4th gear. For you, a 4.10 is just about right, and you will likely end up growing into it. Will it make a 2-3 mph difference? Yes, it probably will. For one, launching out of the hole will be much easier with less chance of bog. Two, you'll be able to go through the traps somewhere in the sweet spot a little past your HP peak (52-5300rpm). You'll end up trapping at 5600-6000, which is just about perfect.
 
Last edited: Dec 26, 2015
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OneWheelPeel

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#26
  • Dec 26, 2015
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Thanks for the info. With the way My setup is now I finish at the low side of 4th gear.
 

cleanLX

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#27
  • Dec 29, 2015
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FastDriver said:
That said, going with a slick ~ and it also will be slower at the track vs. a drag radial that hooks. That's because the drag radial has lower rolling resistance that I mentioned before.
Click to expand...
If by slower you mean mph then its arguable. Either way I don't see a drag radial getting the most ET out of OP's combo, unless he's willing to pony up for a fully adjustable clutch. Even then, how many times have you seen/read of Factory Stock (dr racing) racers swapping to slicks for a non sanctioned event and running new best times. I don't buy that a DR is as quick or quicker than a slick in vehicles set up to take advantage of the selected tire, especially in a stick car with a typical steet/strip clutch setup.
FastDriver said:
Those saying it wouldn't help are probably thinking about a stock intake that only has a 58mm opening and doesn't benefit from a bigger TB. A stock explorer intake has a 70mm inlet and should be matched to a 70mm TB. However, some people choose to open up that port with a die-grinder and install a 75mm TB. If I were you, I'd just slap it on as-is and add the 70mm TB when you can afford to.
Click to expand...
"Not going to help" is not the same as "not required". In this case, $ for TB or spend those $ elsewhere, say shocks and bushings or geometry adjusted rear upper arms... If OP has the 70mm TB laying on the bench then by all means go for it, otherwise put that TB money towards getting the tires to stay hooked after initial launch. I've been 104mph with the stock TB in 2400 D/A (stock motor, full weight car.) 65-70-75, not needed to run 12's is all I'm saying, where as on the other hand hook will be needed.
 

OneWheelPeel

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#28
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cleanLX said:
If by slower you mean mph then its arguable. Either way I don't see a drag radial getting the most ET out of OP's combo, unless he's willing to pony up for a fully adjustable clutch. Even then, how many times have you seen/read of Factory Stock (dr racing) racers swapping to slicks for a non sanctioned event and running new best times. I don't buy that a DR is as quick or quicker than a slick in vehicles set up to take advantage of the selected tire, especially in a stick car with a typical steet/strip clutch setup.

"Not going to help" is not the same as "not required". In this case, $ for TB or spend those $ elsewhere, say shocks and bushings or geometry adjusted rear upper arms... If OP has the 70mm TB laying on the bench then by all means go for it, otherwise put that TB money towards getting the tires to stay hooked after initial launch. I've been 104mph with the stock TB in 2400 D/A (stock motor, full weight car.) 65-70-75, not needed to run 12's is all I'm saying, where as on the other hand hook will be needed.
Click to expand...

What were you talking about when you said "adjustable clutch"?
And also just so its clear my car is a daily driver and I sometimes have to drive a 100 miles a day back and forth to work. I plan on keeping the 225 tires on it for that reason and was going to get 2 extra wheels to put slicks on. They would only be used at the track and that's why I'm not concerned about getting a drag radial that could be used on the street. I live close to a track so I can find used 15 inch slicks on craigslist for cheap. I also know my clutch and axles aren't meant for slicks and I don't plan on dumping the clutch and beating the out of it. I just need something I can be consistent with.
 

TOOLOW91

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A5literMan said:
You definetly need a better intake/throttle body,etc. it should trap around 102-103 with those mods. And then with some slicks or I like M&H dot bias ply tires. Then with aggressive driving you'll have 12's
Click to expand...
I was just about to mention that mph seems way low esp having heads . My buddies 150k mile stock motor minus edlebrock upper and lower goes 13.20s at 102-103 on a DR
 
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A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
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If you are going to use some slicks you really need to do the torque box reinforcements. Buy the bolt in kit if nothing else and at a later date have them welded. Otherwise you will cause damage to your car. I also would put in a drive shaft safety loop.
 
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84Ttop

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#31
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Drag radials for life ...

In all seriousness, they are far more stable than any bias ply tire will ever be and safer in my opinion. I haven't seen a credible argument yet as to how a slick is better at anything other than band-aiding a poorly set up suspension.
 
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FoxMustangLvr

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#32
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If you only have one wheel spinning during take off then you really need to rebuild your traclok or you'll never 60' well. Also as mentioned earlier about bumping timing and running 93 octane, that didn't work well for me. 14* initial timing and 87 octane worked the best for me. 93 octane made my car smell like gas and benefits higher compression/boosted engines. Stick with 87 and run as much timing as you safely can with it.
 

cleanLX

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#33
  • Dec 30, 2015
  • #33
adjustable clutch, example...
SOFT LOK - Racing Parts

Maybe I'm special, but running at 103-104 I've never had stability issues with bias ply ET Streets, and they are going to act just like a "stiff" wall slick.
 
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OneWheelPeel

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#34
  • Dec 30, 2015
  • #34
A5literMan said:
If you are going to use some slicks you really need to do the torque box reinforcements. Buy the bolt in kit if nothing else and at a later date have them welded. Otherwise you will cause damage to your car. I also would put in a drive shaft safety loop.
Click to expand...
What are these "torque box reinforcements" you talk about? And driveshaft saftey loop would be a near future addition.
 
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OneWheelPeel

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#35
  • Dec 30, 2015
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cleanLX said:
adjustable clutch, example...
SOFT LOK - Racing Parts

Maybe I'm special, but running at 103-104 I've never had stability issues with bias ply ET Streets, and they are going to act just like a "stiff" wall slick.
Click to expand...
Thats cool. Ill keep that in mind for my future race car haha!
 

TOOLOW91

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#36
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84Ttop said:
Drag radials for life ...

In all seriousness, they are far more stable than any bias ply tire will ever be and safer in my opinion. I haven't seen a credible argument yet as to how a slick is better at anything other than band-aiding a poorly set up suspension.
Click to expand...
This guy knows a little something about drag radials .... carry on with our regular programming


Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate
 
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OneWheelPeel

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#37
  • Dec 30, 2015
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TOOLOW91 said:
This guy knows a little something about drag radials .... carry on with our regular programming


Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate
Click to expand...
Ive been reading through his build thread on that car and it is bad ass!
 
Last edited: Dec 30, 2015
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84Ttop

They make new pistons every day, so why worry?
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#38
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OneWheelPeel said:
What are these "torque box reinforcements" you talk about? And driveshaft saftey loop would be a near future addition.
Click to expand...
You will want to check the suspension geometry judging from that picture. Without seeing the ride height it's hard to say but I would guess that your instant center is in front of the car with the upper control arms in the top holes
 
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OneWheelPeel

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#39
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84Ttop said:
You will want to check the suspension geometry judging from that picture. Without seeing the ride height it's hard to say but I would guess that your instant center is in front of the car with the upper control arms in the top holes
Click to expand...
Good eye. The shop that I took it to for the welding installed them there even though the instructions said the stock position was in the center holes. Ive since replaced the uppers for some regular tubulars and put them in the center hole. Fixed some vibrations because of that
 
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A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
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#40
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84Ttop said:
Drag radials for life ...

In all seriousness, they are far more stable than any bias ply tire will ever be and safer in my opinion. I haven't seen a credible argument yet as to how a slick is better at anything other than band-aiding a poorly set up suspension.
Click to expand...
Even in lower powered-manual trans cars? I can never get consistent 60fts with drag radials. But then again my suspension did suck lol
 
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