1965 Mustang Convertible Fell in my lap.

gandl2123 · Apr 27, 2019

Need some help. Correct forum? Gentleman died of throat cancer and left this mostly restored gem. Everything on it is new from brakes to door handles to dash pad....my problem? Engine is C9OE-6015-C (1969-302), with 65 289 heads on it. Can't figure that one out. He had owned the car since late 80's? Car has zero oil pressure and not sure what to do. Was told engine was just built, shows all new gaskets on pan areas. Starts, doesn't rattle but oil light stays on. Shut her down and removed valve covers, no oil reaching rockers as drill spins oil pump shaft very fast in correct direction. Removed oil pressure sending unit and repeated experiment, not one drop of the full crankcase oil exits the sending unit hole. Did someone forget to put the oil strainer on the pump? The galley plugs? I'm at a loss on what should be my next step on the classic Mustang. Any suggestions from this forum would be greatly appreciated. Tks in advance.

The Shemdogg · Apr 27, 2019

Pull the oil pan and check the pickup tube, maybe its the wrong one and cant build pressure or oil levels low. Using the drill to run the pump is smart and there should be a good amount of oil shooting into the valve covers. I wouldnt run it anymore until youve got it figured out. Maybe try to contact the engine builder and let him know whats going on.

shem

gandl2123 · Apr 28, 2019

The Shemdogg said:
Pull the oil pan and check the pickup tube, maybe its the wrong one and cant build pressure or oil levels low. Using the drill to run the pump is smart and there should be a good amount of oil shooting into the valve covers. I wouldnt run it anymore until youve got it figured out. Maybe try to contact the engine builder and let him know whats going on.

shem

Guy died at 52 of throat cancer and wife knows nothing about the car. I have a list that he made before he died about everything that was done to the car. There is no reference to builder. I will try to attach a picture of the list of things done.

gandl2123 · Apr 28, 2019

The Shemdogg said:
Pull the oil pan and check the pickup tube, maybe its the wrong one and cant build pressure or oil levels low. Using the drill to run the pump is smart and there should be a good amount of oil shooting into the valve covers. I wouldnt run it anymore until youve got it figured out. Maybe try to contact the engine builder and let him know whats going on.

shem

Oil pump screen in my opinion was on funny angle...not square in the bottom of the oil pan. When I removed it I placed it in the oil and spun her counter clockwise and thought I should have seen oil shooting out of pump. None. Did I do this right?

gandl2123 said:
Need some help. Correct forum? Gentleman died of throat cancer and left this mostly restored gem. Everything on it is new from brakes to door handles to dash pad....my problem? Engine is C9OE-6015-C (1969-302), with 65 289 heads on it. Can't figure that one out. He had owned the car since late 80's? Car has zero oil pressure and not sure what to do. Was told engine was just built, shows all new gaskets on pan areas. Starts, doesn't rattle but oil light stays on. Shut her down and removed valve covers, no oil reaching rockers as drill spins oil pump shaft very fast in correct direction. Removed oil pressure sending unit and repeated experiment, not one drop of the full crankcase oil exits the sending unit hole. Did someone forget to put the oil strainer on the pump? The galley plugs? I'm at a loss on what should be my next step on the classic Mustang. Any suggestions from this forum would be greatly appreciated. Tks in advance.

The Shemdogg said:
Pull the oil pan and check the pickup tube, maybe its the wrong one and cant build pressure or oil levels low. Using the drill to run the pump is smart and there should be a good amount of oil shooting into the valve covers. I wouldnt run it anymore until youve got it figured out. Maybe try to contact the engine builder and let him know whats going on.

shem

Pulled pan...pump screen does not seem to sit in pan right. Not parralel to bottom of pan. Pitched up and back at funny angle. Removed it, placed/submerged in 6 qts of oil...spun pump ccwise and no oil came out if pump. Never did try to spin her clockwise. If she pumps oil from strainer out the mount hole when spinning clockwise then surely would be wrong pump, right? Or if now oil is pumped ccwise then defective pump?

gandl2123 · Apr 28, 2019

gandl2123 said:
Oil pump screen in my opinion was on funny angle...not square in the bottom of the oil pan. When I removed it I placed it in the oil and spun her counter clockwise and thought I should have seen oil shooting out of pump. None. Did I do this right?

Pulled pan...pump screen does not seem to sit in pan right. Not parralel to bottom of pan. Pitched up and back at funny angle. Removed it, placed/submerged in 6 qts of oil...spun pump ccwise and no oil came out if pump. Never did try to spin her clockwise. If she pumps oil from strainer out the mount hole when spinning clockwise then surely would be wrong pump, right? Or if now oil is pumped ccwise then defective pump?

Notice I'm holding this pump with pump flange parralel to the ground. When I do treat the level ground as if it were the level bottom of the block...the strainer is pitched up funny. I really don't think this is correct pump. Can't wait to spin it clockwise tomorrow.

gandl2123 · Apr 29, 2019

gandl2123 said:
Oil pump screen in my opinion was on funny angle...not square in the bottom of the oil pan. When I removed it I placed it in the oil and spun her counter clockwise and thought I should have seen oil shooting out of pump. None. Did I do this right?

Pulled pan...pump screen does not seem to sit in pan right. Not parralel to bottom of pan. Pitched up and back at funny angle. Removed it, placed/submerged in 6 qts of oil...spun pump ccwise and no oil came out if pump. Never did try to spin her clockwise. If she pumps oil from strainer out the mount hole when spinning clockwise then surely would be wrong pump, right? Or if now oil is pumped ccwise then defective pump?

The Shemdogg · Apr 29, 2019

If you are spinning the pump in the direction the dist rotates and its not putting out oil, get a new pickup and pump. Theyre cheap get a good one
shem

gandl2123 · Apr 30, 2019

The Shemdogg said:
If you are spinning the pump in the direction the dist rotates and its not putting out oil, get a new pickup and pump. Theyre cheap get a good one
shem

Yea, just went to Augusta Engine and picked up a Melling? Pump and strainer. Will use old shaft I guess. Install from top as washer is gone.
Also, I'm going to inspect and probably replace rods and mains while I'm in there, hope to replace a two piece rear main if I'm lucky.
Then when I get her together and have pressure, going to replace timing chain and gears as I see there is too much slack.
Lots I never bargained for but strangely enjoy. Lol

fun331 · May 8, 2019

I've run 1965 289 heads on my 1989 mustang for years. The '65 heads are the last year before the thermactor bumps appeared. They can be machined for 1.94 intake and 1.60 exhaust valves and have a chamber around 54 cc. Built mine on a MM&FF article titled "Nine tenths the easy way". Made 210 PSI on my stock 89 block but the chambers were closer to 52 ccs after machining. Dyno'd 280 hp and 321 ft/lbs to the tires through a t5. Weren't so many choices for heads back then and not sure I'd go through it again but they're currently on top of my low comp 331 and still work well.

Is your oil pan single hump or two. Two hump pans use a longer pickup tube. Your pics look like it's for a single hump. Won't really matter if you've bought the correct pump and strainer for your engine. I used the motorsport chrome-moly shaft as I've broken one before.

Congrats on getting a great mustang.

Realmongo · May 8, 2019

Never seen a pump drive shaft break, but I have seen one twist up and come out of the pump when a piece of deteriorated vale stem seal got past the pickup screen and locked up the pump.

gandl2123 · May 8, 2019

fun331 said:
I've run 1965 289 heads on my 1989 mustang for years. The '65 heads are the last year before the thermactor bumps appeared. They can be machined for 1.94 intake and 1.60 exhaust valves and have a chamber around 54 cc. Built mine on a MM&FF article titled "Nine tenths the easy way". Made 210 PSI on my stock 89 block but the chambers were closer to 52 ccs after machining. Dyno'd 280 hp and 321 ft/lbs to the tires through a t5. Weren't so many choices for heads back then and not sure I'd go through it again but they're currently on top of my low comp 331 and still work well.

Is your oil pan single hump or two. Two hump pans use a longer pickup tube. Your pics look like it's for a single hump. Won't really matter if you've bought the correct pump and strainer for your engine. I used the motorsport chrome-moly shaft as I've broken one before.

Congrats on getting a great mustang.

Thank you and I've got her in chasis replacing rear main seal, rods, mains, oil pump, strainer, pump rod, timing chain gears and water pump. Clearly someone pup the 65 289 heads on this C9OE 69 Torino block. I'm hoping and praying we start her up and the C4 works well.

fun331 · May 9, 2019

Might be worthwhile checking the casting number on your heads. I used regular production heads with C5OE stamped on them. There were also 289 hi-power heads with 45cc chambers. You can tell by the studs that the rocker arms mount on. Regular used pressed in studs while the hi-power had screwed in studs so they couldn't pull out at high RPM. The hi-power are uncommon and may be worth some cash; especially to someone doing a Shelby 289 rebuild. We didn't always have the wide choice of heads that we do now; that's probably why the previous owner used the 289's.

Realmongo said:
Never seen a pump drive shaft break, but I have seen one twist up and come out of the pump when a piece of deteriorated vale stem seal got past the pickup screen and locked up the pump.

Mine twisted up like a piece of licorice and broke. Pretty sure it was a piece of the valve cover gasket. The cork ones had those little metal "dowels" between the bolt holes so you couldn't squish the gasket too much. It must have gotten loose, past the screen on the pickup and into my pump. I was at 5000 RPM when it happened so lots of oil moving. Not sure if the moly shaft is the perfect solution. it likely means something else would break. Switched to the new style Ford valve cover gaskets as well.

gandl2123 · May 9, 2019

gandl2123 said:
Thank you and I've got her in chasis replacing rear main seal, rods, mains, oil pump, strainer, pump rod, timing chain gears and water pump. Clearly someone pup the 65 289 heads on this C9OE 69 Torino block. I'm hoping and praying we start her up and the C4 works well.

The oil pan is a single hump? By that it seems to me to be like a small block Chevy pan....deep at the front and gets shallow as it goes rearward. Normal to me.

gandl2123 · May 9, 2019

fun331 said:
Might be worthwhile checking the casting number on your heads. I used regular production heads with C5OE stamped on them. There were also 289 hi-power heads with 45cc chambers. You can tell by the studs that the rocker arms mount on. Regular used pressed in studs while the hi-power had screwed in studs so they couldn't pull out at high RPM. The hi-power are uncommon and may be worth some cash; especially to someone doing a Shelby 289 rebuild. We didn't always have the wide choice of heads that we do now; that's probably why the previous owner used the 289's.

Mine twisted up like a piece of licorice and broke. Pretty sure it was a piece of the valve cover gasket. The cork ones had those little metal "dowels" between the bolt holes so you couldn't squish the gasket too much. It must have gotten loose, past the screen on the pickup and into my pump. I was at 5000 RPM when it happened so lots of oil moving. Not sure if the moly shaft is the perfect solution. it likely means something else would break. Switched to the new style Ford valve cover gaskets as well.

I'm going to go look...where might I find the casting numbers? I can see the number 65 near one side and 289 near the other. I'm thinking stamped vs threaded will be apparently as I will be able to see or not see threads near the insertion points.

fun331 · May 10, 2019

It's been a few years so I found a pic on Google. Looks like they're underneath by the push rod holes How could that be hard to check.....
I found a pic of the screw in studs too they have shoulders where you can put a wrench on them. They look like mine but I paid a machine shop to put them in.
The single hump pan is probably correct for your car. The fox chassis cars (79 to 93) had double hump pans due to the K member as far as I know. Have fun wrenching....

gandl2123 · May 12, 2019

Having a problem here. Everyone has told me that rod bearings and main Bearings without .010, .020 or STD markings are in fact std. I ordered STD bearings and swapped out the mains with new 2pc rear main seal. I have not plastiguaged yet but plan to this week.

Problem? I went out this AM and started w the rods on first two rods. Got bearings in and torqued. Side to side play (along crank journal) seemed normal.

However, when you check play perpendicular to crank journal...wham there's just as much play. Not good.

Took rod cap back off and noticed oil on surface wasn't even squished. Took and looked at first two cylinder's and saw a bearing with no obvious size numbers but one had a .012 marking on it. Dang what to do now?

gandl2123 · May 12, 2019

fun331 said:
It's been a few years so I found a pic on Google. Looks like they're underneath by the push rod holes How could that be hard to check.....
I found a pic of the screw in studs too they have shoulders where you can put a wrench on them. They look like mine but I paid a machine shop to put them in.
The single hump pan is probably correct for your car. The fox chassis cars (79 to 93) had double hump pans due to the K member as far as I know. Have fun wrenching....

Mine are pressed in type.

Realmongo · May 12, 2019

gandl2123 said:
Yea, just went to Augusta Engine and picked up a Melling? Pump and strainer. Will use old shaft I guess. Install from top as washer is gone.
Also, I'm going to inspect and probably replace rods and mains while I'm in there, hope to replace a two piece rear main if I'm lucky.
Then when I get her together and have pressure, going to replace timing chain and gears as I see there is too much slack.
Lots I never bargained for but strangely enjoy. Lol

The pump drive shafts are cheap, so change it out.

Also, DO NOT install a shaft without the tinnerman retainer on it. That is what stops the shaft from pulling out and dropping into the oil pan when you remove the distributor!

Noobz347 · May 15, 2019

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