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xecute

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Aug 25, 2017
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SC and MM.

That little blurb I did on the EECV 460 1996 F250 truck in your went into Fords VR and VSS signal protocols.

https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-fo...ea-advice-on-build.908143/page-9#post-9162212

Item 12.
The EEC-V expects a 8k PPM (pulse per mile) VSS (vehicle speed sensor) signal from the PSOM (speedo module) just like other EEC-IV equipped 1987-1997 F trucks (and unlike other EEC-V applications that use a 16k or 40k PPM VSS signal).

It is also compatible with the Ford VRS (variable reluctance sensor) speed sensors.

I was able to use a F-450/550 extension housing on my E4OD which has a OSS (Output Shaft Speed) sensor boss in it (and is also a much stronger cast iron part, instead of cast aluminum as the F-150/250/350 housing are).

I had a 3 tooth reluctor made that is an interference fit on the E4OD's output shaft (the F-550's had a 18 tooth reluctor and matching splined output shaft). The result is a perfect 8k PPM signal to feed to the EEC-V (and Ford CruiseControl module) that is independant of the transfer case low range gearing.

This means the shift scheduling is not affected by using low range even though my truck has two different low range ratios (2:1 or 4:1), none of which match the stock BW t-case ratios.

Just for Variable Reluctor guys who wanna use a VR sensor to generate a Square Wave form.

DON'T.

A quick auxilary system to generate a square wave form is to use a Bernstien sensor which is commonally used for Rally Cars down here.

Generally, becasue of cost, and the issues with pure square waves forms being a problem source of emf or digital crossover, all the car based sesnors are of a Variable Reluctor type, pure Analogue input systems which don't poll below 7 mph. (Read below)

There are a few exceptions, but not many.


Sometimes you can use the Brantz Prescaler to divide Analogue voltage changes to an almost square wave form, but athough I've found it exceptionally good for tire cnahge calibration, and very adjustable, it won't work any mircales on the normal combined pre OBD2 Ford VR sensors for cruise control and speedo.

Been There, Done That.

Additionally, the post OBD1 stuff right into the OBD2 era Didn't work on my 1996 Nissan Stagea AWD,
my wifes ABS equiped 1996 RAV4 G spec 180 PS 3SGE
my Opus International Consultants Ltd 1993 VP Holden Commodore GM 3800 Executive
my Opus International Consultants Ltd 1994 Toyota HiAce SR5 2.4 Liter gasoline van
my Opus International Consultants Ltd 1994 Toyota Hilux SR5 2.4 Liter gasoline pickup

and my 1981 Mustang, which used the VR sensor.

The Fox VR sensor dates back to the 1969 California spec 302 Boss and Eliminator, and California spec 351C 4V Distrovac system also used on stick shift Maverick 200 and 250's to the early 73 era. It was used as a ignition advance booster to improve cold start emissions at various speeds below full throttle.

All off them start polling at about 20 mph on the upward increase, and then down to 6 mph on the decline.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthr...age-output-verses-speed&p=1716225#post1716225


xctasy;1716225 said:
What a very strange, but very cool system.. It's just the 8000 plips per mile, early EECIV compatibale 8 pulse per revolution VRS system, with a variable voltage sqaure wave form from 20 mph onwards. It does have some funny features on sub 20 mph voltage polling, technically able to poll back down to 7 mph in some circumstances.

Certain versions of the EEC III, EEC IV and most EEC V's require an 8000 pulse per mile vehicle speed sensor signal from the PSOM (speedo module), which is just like all other EEC-IV equipped vehicles

Other later EEC V applications use a 16000 or 40000 pulse per mile VSS signal.



I'm told that some of the CFI or Speed Desnity AOD Fox varaints poll down to 7 mph, and allow idle speed conditioning.



Sadly, the periodic zero moh to 19.9 mph null readings won't do what I need it to do, as like some ABS circuits, it has no reliable squarewave below 20 mph to log distance travelled. Its circumstantial, and as such, presnts a Major Bummmer.....

I could probably use a prescaler to create a digital sqaure wave form from an SN95 hub, but I can get another Proximity sensor tommorw in the post for 95 US.


I jacked up my car, and ran the standard Hetz, A/C Voltage and Ohms resistance checks from zero to 62 mph, with my metric speedo registering in KM/H. Note that there is no voltage going up to 32 km/h or 20 mph, but once invoked, the voltage can be recorded right donw to zero, so there is an interesting voltage speed, Hertz resolution

0 km/h, 0 mph 0 Hz, zero volts AC
12 km/h, 7.4 mph, but 0.016 volts AC on over run
See picture
7.4%20mph%20AC%20voltage.jpg

20 km/h, 12.4 mph 0 Hz, zero volts AC
30 km/h, 18.6 mph 0 Hz, zero volts AC, but 0.033 volts AC on overun
See picture
18.6%20mph%20AC%20voltage.jpg

32 km/h, 19.9 mph 0 Hz, 0.00 volts AC
32.2 km/h, 20.0 mph, 0 Hz, 0.019 volts AC
40 km/h, 24.9 mph 0.056 volts AC
50 km/h, 31.1 mph, 0.083 volts AC
60 km/h, 37.3 mph 102 Hz, 0.109 volts AC
70 km/h, 43.5 mph, 0.149 volts AC
80 km/h, 49.7 mph 0.186 volts AC
88 km/h, 54.7 mph 125 Hz, 0.223 volts AC
See picture
55%20mph%20AC%20voltage.jpg

100 km/h 62.1 mph, 0.273 volts AC
See picture
62%20mph%20AC%20voltage.jpg



The square wave form kicks in after 19.9 mph on the upward rise, with zero Hertz cycles per second on my Cat IV multimetervoltage and the voltage increasing steadily from 20 mph on upwards.


The on the decilne after 20 mph, it records right down to 7 mph, assumably for the one Speed Desnity AOD car that needed idle speed control...



Well, I've tried to make the Fox VR sensor work, but its designed for other purposes Ford engineers had in mind in the late 70's, not for a roading technician's list of must haves. I was hoping that the 8 plips per revolution reluctor would allow a square wave form logging down to "stop start" walking speed, as required by Autocross Halda, Brantz and other Route position meter. But it doesn't. There are other speedo pickups that do, the Fox system isn't really difficult, but I wanted a truly digital solution. Ford system is half digital, half anologue, and it hasn't helped me.


I had no choice but to set up another Bernstein proximity sensor, and JB Weld/Devcon expoxy in four extra M10 30 mm long set screws with the hex head filled in with a cut down Allen keyhead Arildited to the set screw.

Mr Bernstein, JB Weld, Mr Allen and Mr Tu Pack Araldite® from Selley's Australia saved my life


attachment.jpg


attachment.jpg


attachment.jpg


attachment.jpg




It was a lot harder, I thought I could just drill four holes, and run an M10 1.5 MM tap and die through it, but there wasn't enough metal to do it.

The requiremnt I have is to be able to log distances of 9-1/2 inches along the road, and with a four stud wheel and 77 inch rollout (loaded) 190/65 390 tire, I can get down to only 19.3 inches with four studs, or 15.5 inches five stud.

I can't fit 10 studs on the inner wheel pitch center diameter, so I'm stuck with 8 3/4" bolt heads on a 108 mm 4-1/4" PCD, and that's going to have to be used when I go Five stud as well.



I'm scratching my head on how to make a 10 bolt even spaced sesnor ring on the back of a five stud brake disk...that's my next project.

Hope this has helped somone here...
 

CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
10,900
11,281
234
61
Birmingham, al
SC and MM.

That little blurb I did on the EECV 460 1996 F250 truck in your went into Fords VR and VSS signal protocols.

https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-fo...ea-advice-on-build.908143/page-9#post-9162212




Just for Variable Reluctor guys who wanna use a VR sensor to generate a Square Wave form.

DON'T.

A quick auxilary system to generate a square wave form is to use a Bernstien sensor which is commonally used for Rally Cars down here.

Generally, becasue of cost, and the issues with pure square waves forms being a problem source of emf or digital crossover, all the car based sesnors are of a Variable Reluctor type, pure Analogue input systems which don't poll below 7 mph. (Read below)

There are a few exceptions, but not many.


Sometimes you can use the Brantz Prescaler to divide Analogue voltage changes to an almost square wave form, but athough I've found it exceptionally good for tire cnahge calibration, and very adjustable, it won't work any mircales on the normal combined pre OBD2 Ford VR sensors for cruise control and speedo.

Been There, Done That.

Additionally, the post OBD1 stuff right into the OBD2 era Didn't work on my 1996 Nissan Stagea AWD,
my wifes ABS equiped 1996 RAV4 G spec 180 PS 3SGE
my Opus International Consultants Ltd 1993 VP Holden Commodore GM 3800 Executive
my Opus International Consultants Ltd 1994 Toyota HiAce SR5 2.4 Liter gasoline van
my Opus International Consultants Ltd 1994 Toyota Hilux SR5 2.4 Liter gasoline pickup

and my 1981 Mustang, which used the VR sensor.

The Fox VR sensor dates back to the 1969 California spec 302 Boss and Eliminator, and California spec 351C 4V Distrovac system also used on stick shift Maverick 200 and 250's to the early 73 era. It was used as a ignition advance booster to improve cold start emissions at various speeds below full throttle.

All off them start polling at about 20 mph on the upward increase, and then down to 6 mph on the decline.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthr...age-output-verses-speed&p=1716225#post1716225
Dean,.....this is too deep of a subject for mere mortals..
 

xecute

Active Member
Aug 25, 2017
288
155
53
49
I can't sit back and wonder why
It took so long for this to die
And I hate it when you fake it
You can't hide it you might as well embrace it
So believe me it's not easy
It seems that something's telling me...Cause I'm in too deep ....

Any way, I used the front Bernstein sensor on my drivers side to tee off against the speedo/cruise VR sensor to check for slip.

All the calculations look complicated, but they are just gravy.

All easy to do.

Even my RAV4 and the very complicated Attesa Skyline based system in my 4WD Stagea just uses a who kit and caboodle of VR sensors which go back to a Hitachi computer to actuate the viscous coupling so the four wheel drive isn't fighting the ABS
 

CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
10,900
11,281
234
61
Birmingham, al
The behind the scenes goings on has Steve figuring stuff out now. Converting over to 3x from a DIY built ms2 wasn't even the least bit hard. All you have to do is unplug one board with the main processor on it, and plug in the new ms3 board in place of that. Secure it with a couple of supplied screws, and add the 3x expansion card, which plugs into the newly added ms3 daughter board. Then slide all that junk into the bigger case.

The "hard part", the "scary part".....is bringing it to life.

You have to create a new project file, and you have to install new firmware to the latest ms 3 release ( because your tune/config was ms2 based, and now we're talking a little different, and much faster) .......And, in order to do that, the thing has to be plugged in, and powered up.

So,..fuel,...spark,..injection, fans, pumps,....,...they're all powered up with no programming telling them what to do......
Or what not to do.

Steve wants to know if I have a way to turn off all of that stuff, and just have the ecu powered up so that fans won't run, pumps won't pump, coil packs won't fire, injectors won't click, and my precious EDIS won't somehow overheat.

Uhh,....Nooooo,.....I didn't plan to ever have to turn off any of this sht.....it all needs to run.

"Ok then,..We'll just have to go with that then he says, but after the firmware upload is complete, a bunch of stuffs gonna probably start happening"...

Perfect..

The good thing ( According Obi-Wan VanOrder) is that the firmware upload process has been upgraded along with the hardware, and was now do-able from the PC. The other good thing was that my Bluetooth connection worked instantly, and made all of that techno-stuff possible whilst I was sitting at the workbench where I built that thing.

The bad thing was that after it all uploaded, and the required power cycle took place,..the fans started running, and I get a conflict warning saying something to the effect that one of my outputs was conflicted, and I had to correct that in settings before going on....but it didn't mention the fact that the damn fans are running. ( and who knows what else,...you can't hear anything while the fans are running)...

So rather than hold my hand, he takes the current tune home with him...saying that he'll have it back to me in a few mouse clicks sometime today....and not to worry...

But you gotta understand one thing...this is me we're talking about here.

Me? Not Worry?!! Pfffttt!

Let's just say that I'm not gonna put the top on the ecu, or even attempt to secure the thing just yet.
 

xecute

Active Member
Aug 25, 2017
288
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I can't sit back and wonder why....

He got both knees done on the fly.....

Sit and Wait. Jump to it.
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
7,969
4,524
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Hillsborough county
SC and MM.

That little blurb I did on the EECV 460 1996 F250 truck in your went into Fords VR and VSS signal protocols.

https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-fo...ea-advice-on-build.908143/page-9#post-9162212




Just for Variable Reluctor guys who wanna use a VR sensor to generate a Square Wave form.

DON'T.

A quick auxilary system to generate a square wave form is to use a Bernstien sensor which is commonally used for Rally Cars down here.

Generally, becasue of cost, and the issues with pure square waves forms being a problem source of emf or digital crossover, all the car based sesnors are of a Variable Reluctor type, pure Analogue input systems which don't poll below 7 mph. (Read below)

There are a few exceptions, but not many.


Sometimes you can use the Brantz Prescaler to divide Analogue voltage changes to an almost square wave form, but athough I've found it exceptionally good for tire cnahge calibration, and very adjustable, it won't work any mircales on the normal combined pre OBD2 Ford VR sensors for cruise control and speedo.

Been There, Done That.

Additionally, the post OBD1 stuff right into the OBD2 era Didn't work on my 1996 Nissan Stagea AWD,
my wifes ABS equiped 1996 RAV4 G spec 180 PS 3SGE
my Opus International Consultants Ltd 1993 VP Holden Commodore GM 3800 Executive
my Opus International Consultants Ltd 1994 Toyota HiAce SR5 2.4 Liter gasoline van
my Opus International Consultants Ltd 1994 Toyota Hilux SR5 2.4 Liter gasoline pickup

and my 1981 Mustang, which used the VR sensor.

The Fox VR sensor dates back to the 1969 California spec 302 Boss and Eliminator, and California spec 351C 4V Distrovac system also used on stick shift Maverick 200 and 250's to the early 73 era. It was used as a ignition advance booster to improve cold start emissions at various speeds below full throttle.

All off them start polling at about 20 mph on the upward increase, and then down to 6 mph on the decline.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthr...age-output-verses-speed&p=1716225#post1716225
This seems like a good way to get the inputs we need for traction control ect...j

but could you please translate this information into stupid american for me.... and maybe a link or two so i can buy these items
 

CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
10,900
11,281
234
61
Birmingham, al
well,....It runs.

Perfectly.

The take away is that this kinda sht makes Steve like a little kid in a toy store. The whole time he's looking at the tune file, he's looking at the capabilities,.... He's sayin stuff like "Oh my God,...Wow,...That's is fckin awesome,...Man, I'm jealous.

I'm all the time thinkin..."I just hope it runs right."

It does...Just as it always did. Only now I can do super human sht..............evidently.

Lets recap shall we?

One week ago I cut my finger off, and put it back in place w/ steri-strips and a CVS splint.
Today,...I'm on the path to a full recovery...Albeit w/another gash that'll tell all the ladies, that I'm good at working with my hands:cautious:
20190407_092814_zpsx1nvguvs.jpg


The MS2 to 3 X is behind me, ...what ever I was worried about was completely unfounded..
20190407_093742_zpscmxssyrw.jpg

** Dont believe that for a second.....This car would not have ran after this upgrade...The fact that I had to use unorthodox outputs to run the common stuff caused several conflicts with how the MS3x wanted to do it...It had to be told that there were these "band-aids" in place to make this thing work.
20190407_120906_zpslfu72vjn.jpg

But it works great, with endless potential in front of me....So nothing left to do, but tuck him into his little cubby, and cover him back up until that time comes when I get it rolling, and thoughts turn to,...........15 psi.

The final footnote before I go get something to eat, and start working on the trunk, is to recognize Steve for his selfless help.

If I wasn't such a prick I'd say that this place is full of the best of the best, and Guys like Steve, Dave, Nick, and quite a few others that prove that this is the best collection of guys that you can get.

Except the fact that I'm here too,........and there is that "prick" part still........So I got that going for me...............................................Which is nice.
 

CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
10,900
11,281
234
61
Birmingham, al
To say that I have made great inroads towards getting the trunk closer to the day it takes the place of the other would be to lie.


All I did was uncover a mess.
 

CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
10,900
11,281
234
61
Birmingham, al
That is what it looks like. ( Well, that and the bogus repair on the back edge)
The good thing is it don't feel like it. You cannot feel the little dimples, although they are clearly low. Maybe they'll fill under primer Dave? @Davedacarpainter
 

droopie85gt

Hookers and Beer for life!
Dec 26, 2016
790
493
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Cordova, TN
Looks like an MRI. It is amazing what can be hiding under paint. Sometimes you know what is there and sometimes it's a whole lot of WTF.
 

Davedacarpainter

I think I've messed my pants
SN Certified Technician
Nov 28, 2015
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That is what it looks like. ( Well, that and the bogus repair on the back edge)
The good thing is it don't feel like it. You cannot feel the little dimples, although they are clearly low. Maybe they'll fill under primer Dave? @Davedacarpainter
As long as you use hardener(;)) in your primer, it’ll probably fill them.

Worst case? You find a couple that need a little filler.
 

CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
10,900
11,281
234
61
Birmingham, al
For now, the ecu is done. It'll start the car, and the " known tune" that's on it is safe enough to go out, and drive it.
Before I can do that I gotta finish the two panels..the hood and the trunk.

Both of them have their fair share of work. The hood is gonna need the hole where the hood ornament was filled. I think I'm gonna take the rear vents off of the original hood and transfer them over to this one. I'll have to fill a couple of small dents, and finish the repair that was done on the under side where the old prop rod caused a rip in the inner structure ( re-welded already)

The trunk has rust around the seam, and I'm gonna get some sand to put in my little HF blast gun to deal with that., but after that gets remedied, I'm only gonna clean the underside(s), scuff them add a coat of primer, and paint it.

Somewhere back a million pages, there are some photo-shopped images of the hood on the car in different colors, so I can decide if I want to try all black, all orange, or some combination of the two again. It's the same way for the trunk for me.
Thinkin' maybe all black this time, with only the front edge above the grille orange, and the rear edge of the trunk the same way.

Maybe.

Like this, only maybe just the hood gets the black with just the front edge staying orange.
gila-monster-black-hood-3-png.png
 
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