Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

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#6,981
xecute said:
Most probably.:thinking:Nope, don't start me second guessing myself again :chair:

Ring fitting is Job 1...sometimes redone time and time again. My natural father dad did it three times to his wives.

Nice relatives. One is attuned to you, the other has thrown a conrod in the Mutual Concord of understanding. Malfunction Indicator Lamps shouldn't say the C word. Damn it!

I'm more concerned about your lack of proper thinking on the cleaning process. How dare you or anyone else dirty a turbo with a sink.

Hint. Make sure you put some more dish drops as a dispersion agent when washing up the Borg Warner turbo and throttle body. WD40, rinse, repeat. No lather in this blather.....
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The turbo, the throttle body, and related products are getting nothing in the way of a cleaning.... They are just sitting on the shelf space....the stuff under the towel,....( rockers, studs, pushrods,)....all will get a bath in some sort of solvent, followed with a sudsy bath and rinse...
The engine gets the same over the next couple of days.....all 6 top rings are fitted..the second rings get the treatment tomorrow.
 
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#6,982
95BlueStallion said:
All that talk being past us, where are you going to install your signature tag on the engine?
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I like it - you got what I was trying to convey exactly right.

There are a lot of people that "build engines" but very few that do it with the skill, care and craftsmanship that AMG does. It is a rare honor to be included in the ranks of that elite group.

@madmike1157 Consider the AMG comparison a compliment, something I rarely do here on Stangnet. I spend most of my time here helping people dig their way out of the Mustang shaped hole that they have found themselves in.

While you are enjoying your very nice new chair, do the rest of us a favor. Convince your wife she needs to do an online class to teach the rest of the Stangnet wives to appreciate their husbands. Instead of being out on the town chasing wicked women from one bar to another, we are out in the shop chasing the bolt that we just dropped on the shop floor. If we get a call from a strange woman, it is the customer service rep calling to give a status update on the superflow high performance widget we last ordered week.
 
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#6,983
jrichker said:
I like it - you got what I was trying to convey exactly right.

There are a lot of people that "build engines" but very few that do it with the skill, care and craftsmanship that AMG does. It is a rare honor to be included in the ranks of that elite group.

@madmike1157 Consider the AMG comparison a compliment, something I rarely do here on Stangnet. I spend most of my time here helping people dig their way out of the Mustang shaped hole that they have found themselves in.

While you are enjoying your very nice new chair, do the rest of us a favor. Convince your wife she needs to do an online class to teach the rest of the Stangnet wives to appreciate their husbands. Instead of being out on the town chasing wicked women from one bar to another, we are out in the shop chasing the bolt that we just dropped on the shop floor. If we get a call from a strange woman, it is the customer service rep calling to give a status update on the superflow high performance widget we last ordered week.
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Thanks Joe,...I did take it that way.
I'm sure that the other women appreciate their husbands. The fact that mine does what she does makes her a special case. ( For which I appreciate her greatly). I said earlier that I gave her a list...the fact of the matter is, she didn't get a thing off of it. I didn't ask for that chair....she just thought I'd like it better than the folding beach chair I was using. I do.
I certainly didn't ask for that blown up canvas of the front end of the Monster...it was a complete surprise.
A most pleasant one.
And....I didn't ask for the android tablet that she bought as a replacement for my ailing Windows 8 PC....

But since I cannot use an Android tablet as a replacement for my Win8 tablet....( especially since I wanted it for a tuning tool,.....and Tuner Studio doesn't fully work on a app based tablet) .....I had to break an almost perfect trifecta by telling her that it wouldn't work...And that was not what I wanted to do.
 
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#6,984
Yo woman is marvelous.

I have nothing to add, so I think I'm better off drawing from my vast quantities of b-a-d piston ring pictures

BADMOTORFINGER.jpg


SIX_RINGS_THEN_THE_DIALTONE_MANTAKINASH1t.jpg
 

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#6,986
Well,...talk about getting the wind knocked out of you.....

I was on a mission to re-assemble the short today. Spent the first couple of hours scraping the rest of the gasket/Right stuff off of the engine..
The I got out my porta-bridgeport, chucked up a tapered stone, and put a "sho-nuff" taper at the top of the cylinder to allow the rings to slide into the bore more smoothly ( Didn't have that last time.....made for a real PITA when it came time to install the pistons)
20171226_153710_zpsjaprr8x6.jpg

I rolled the engine outside and did a first clean w/ degreaser, chase-tapped the head stud and main cap holes.

I went to the autopart store and bought a new engine cleaning brush kit..( my old one never made it from the nail it hung on in the old garage)..I bought the can of satin black that I'll re-paint the engine with, and I came back. I filled a bucket with hot soapy water, and rewashed the engine..

When it came time to dry it all and get it ready for the crank...I noticed a weird scratch in cyl 5 that ran in the same direction that the boring bar/cylinder hone would have...
20171226_151400_Burst01_zpsdzdy3zuc.jpg

* see my nifty cylinder taper at top...
I felt it, and you can definitely feel it...cant tell if it is high or low, there but there is definitely a blemish in the finish there.
(Cylinder 5 was the suck-assed blow by cylinder)

6 also shows a similar smaller blemish..( you can see it in the same pic) but not as exaggerated .it's like dude didn't get the boring cut marks honed completely out or something...
I called the machine shop, and I gotta take the thing down there tomorrow to have them look at it, and do a re-hone if possible...
'cept the rings are now fit to the bores as is....anything they take out will make the rings looser....
They are all gapped at .022...which is great for 15 psi and down..if I was to gap them like I did the first time around, I'd use the formula that allows for boost of 15-30 psi...and the ring gap should be .026...but I don't want them that loose..
* I just read a note in the ring set that states that for every .001 they increase bore size, the ring eng gap increases by .0035,....that don't look good to me...


I guess we'll see tomorrow.
 
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#6,992
Well,....

I get it to the machine shop,...and the owner takes a look...He feels around, and looks some more...He gets a dial bore gauge and checks the cylinders....he says nothing as he checks them.
When he's done he says that cylinder 5 is toast. The blemish cannot be honed away. He also agrees that there is a similar issue with #6. There is .001 taper in at least one cylinder additionally...( at least what he pointed out to me)

For those of the non-engine build speak, cylinder wall imperfections, and in-concentricities affect ring seal. Cylinder bore taper is a bad thing too, as it allows the ring end gap to become tighter and looser as the piston travels up and down in the bore. And I got all three....on an engine with less than 12 hours of actual run time.
In other words....a ring end gap set to .022 one inch down in the bore, tightens up to .0185 at the bottom of the bore. An out of round cylinder or a gouge cannot be sealed with a ring at all, regardless of where it is in the bore.

He says that he's gonna have to sleeve cyl #5 for sure, and will probably just go ahead and sleeve all 6......

Again.

"If I want the cylinder bore perfectly straight that is." He tells me that the guy that did this fine work is no longer there,...( Like that's supposed to make it any better)
Of course I do I tell him..."And how much is any of this gonna cost me?" I ask.....

He says "We'll work that out later".....No,......"He'll" work that out later...

So,....I'm guessing that there is/something bad wrong W/#5...If you'll recall, I said that it took way more effort to remove #5 than it did the other ones...the fact that there is a fairly deep tool mark in that cylinder that didn't hone out leaves me thinking that the cylinder isn't round...And that would be why the engine huffed...At least that's what I'm thinking....

I guess it's a good thing,.. all things considered.

The engine ran really good,......and it wasn't right..
 
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#6,993
F A damn DUCK! That's some serious bull :poo: right there. So much for done by back in by New Years. Hopefully he does right by you. The only thing worse than incompetent people is incompetent people who don't own their mistakes.
 
#6,995
As someone who is also dealing with bad block machining on my rebuild, I feel you Mike. I especially love the whole "we'll work it out later" line. How about "Yeah, we **** that up. We won't charge you" right off the god damn bat.
 
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#6,996
Ouch! At least now you have a probable cause for the issue. Imagine if you put it back together and only found it slightly improved.

I didnt want to say anything but that hone finish looks rough! It really does not look like he finished with a fine stone, or material Is less then premium? Is that just a iron sleeve or a ductile iron sleeve?
 
#6,997
Also I strongly advise against that much bore relief to aid in piston ring installation. You create a area where fuel will build up and create detonation or drive fuel into the ring area creating ring wash.
 
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#6,999
HotFox said:
Ouch! At least now you have a probable cause for the issue. Imagine if you put it back together and only found it slightly improved.

I didnt want to say anything but that hone finish looks rough! It really does not look like he finished with a fine stone, or material Is less then premium? Is that just a iron sleeve or a ductile iron sleeve?
Click to expand...
The finish you're seeing is after I got in there w/ a sheet of 220 grit sand paper so I could see WTF was going on...I just wanted to clean up some of the oxidation that was left over after the wash...

HotFox said:
Also I strongly advise against that much bore relief to aid in piston ring installation. You create a area where fuel will build up and create detonation or drive fuel into the ring area creating ring wash.
Click to expand...
I asked them to chamfer the new sleeve install this time,...I'll make sure they do when I go to pick the thing up.
 
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