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Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

  • Thread starter Thread starter CarMichael Angelo
  • Start date Start date Aug 26, 2013
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    1978 2jzgte 6 cylinder american racing ar 500 australian head custom interior cyclone cyclone spoiler fairmont ford fuel injected futura indepedant throttle bodies inline ms3x roller cam snow cooler turbocharged
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xecute

Eaten, greased and played with my balls
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2017
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Dunedin, New Zealand (South Is.)
Aug 18, 2018
#8,401
  • Aug 18, 2018
  • #8,401
If its puking out more than a quart of oil every 1000 miles, then the rings haven't bedded into bores, that is a gradual processas modern bores are too smooth for oil retention, especially if someone has only targeted average Roughness (Ra) instead of Rvk, Rk, and Rpk combination that comes from a good plateau hone. . With modern chromium rings , not the ductile iron, that process can take a while. Target Rvk should be 24, Rk, 20, and Rpk 5. Ra is not a measure I'd use on a modern engine anywhere, not on the head gasket, not on the cylinder walls, but I'd expect your cylinder walls are a super slick 10 Ra. If its rougher than all those figures by a factor of 1.6, its getting too rough, and you start to see oil at the bottom of hill after a long run, or the blues on start up. s on start up.

I'm sure you've got issues since you haven't done a 1000 miles yet, but as you know, the operator is the plateau hone for a performance engine.

As long as the liners are still true, then if the moderate boundary layer needed has gone west, (and you haven't got other issues, like the late 90's Modular and LS Chev 1500-1800 rpm shallow compression heighet Zollener piston slap), it all comes from a really smooth bore and need for a little more valley depth in the bore from the core roughness.

If your having blow by, then you know the peak levels have already been given, generally 3 cfm at 5500 rpm or maxumum torque, which on a turbo will be at 3000 rpm, and the same as at 5500 rpm.

With 3 cfm going basically to the crankcase and to the rocker cover, water in oil readings are only an issue for engines with blown head gaskets, or porus head castings, or wet liner engines with a slipped liner. Then, they would go off the chart with milky oil the symptom, basically more than 50% of the blow by would then be water. After a varied bed in, weekly or monthly 1000 miles of running, you might have close to zero oil loss, but a constant 3 cfm blow by is what a normally aspirated engine makes. Turboed, it'll see that peak and more, much more often. Guides, rings, ( through the piston ring gap, and piston rings ) and the additional blow by from a 1.6 boost ratio, and cfm goes up primarily another 40% by turbo shaft, both air compressors, and that extra from the valve stems. In total, these components can be responsible for as much as 40% of the crankcase blowby. The combustion process is largely wasted in a piston engine through heat, but the cracking process of converting gasoline to heat and movement also liberates a lot more steam in a turbo engine. But none of that steam is anything other than evaporative emission blow by, what comes back through the injectors via fuel stand off, and rings, ring gaps, valve steams, then the whole three parts of the turbo. On a turbo engine, that can be a crap ton.
 
Last edited: Aug 18, 2018

jrichker

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Aug 18, 2018
#8,402
  • Aug 18, 2018
  • #8,402
@CarMichael Angelo
·

See these two reference areas for an answer to your air/oil separator problems.

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...1.64.psy-ab..1.8.734.0..35i39k1.0.pyrzf-7xZ2s

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=i...N8KHezlCnMQ4lYILygB&biw=1024&bih=689&dpr=1.25

To see a simple but effective cyclonic separator, visit
See View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEoGPITqBQA

A gallon or quart paint can would be about the right size for your needs.
 
Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
Reactions: xecute and RaggedGT

xecute

Eaten, greased and played with my balls
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2017
171
89
53
Dunedin, New Zealand (South Is.)
Aug 19, 2018
#8,403
  • Aug 19, 2018
  • #8,403
Hello

James Evans Jr here.

You got the right telephone number, 'cause yo got kid....Dynomite!






Blowby Recorder

This hand held device lets you display the blowby as either CFM (cubic feet per minute), LPS (liters/second) or LPM (liters/min) without need of a data logger. You can also record blowby for as little as a few seconds or for up to 20 minutes. Then you can playback your data on the Recorder, or download to the free Blowby Analyzer software for graphing, printing, saving, etc.
Click to expand...



CarMichael Angelo said:
...
( how long do ya spose it'll take the Monster to puke out 2 oz. of oil?)....
Click to expand...

On intial bed in, if thrashed, (an' isa aint sayin' you is thrashin it, but just hyper methematically thinkin aloud if its allowed) .....it will operate like a Water Injection system, or AdBlue scrubber unit for diesel truck thrashed, or like a nitrous system used on the street.


Everytime you use the mid range at 80% TPS, you'll get in excess of 3 cfm blow by, and it'll carry water as part of the cracking process. B y my calc's, 9/16ths of a cfm per piston.


3cfm for a repeatedly caned afternoon of driving (an' isa aint sayin' you is thrashin it, but just hyper methematically...) will make a quart or liter of decant per 1000 miles, easy. Decant settles out, so its total volume will yield much less than that in water an oil, but you get the idea. If the engine is okay mechnaically after its bedding in, it won't make more blowby.

People need to understand....its only when you use an engine under its mid range load that it makes blow by.



I'd by the blow by detection kit. Unlike a Supercharged engine, a trubo always works the rings out because at cruise and under boost, the variance load is externally 1.6 times what it is at cruise. Supercharged engines are always more constantly boosted at the manifold. The "comming on the boost" is a turbo thing. It loads the rings, and the amount of remaining engine life is a function of the peak blow by, it can be very accuratley defined. In Tuning British Leylands A Series Engine, the 2ND Edition book, DV said that peak blow by from valves and pistons collectively defines remaining engine life.



 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Aug 19, 2018
#8,404
  • Aug 19, 2018
  • #8,404
xecute said:
If its puking out more than a quart of oil every 1000 miles, then the rings haven't bedded into bores, that is a gradual processas modern bores are too smooth for oil retention, especially if someone has only targeted average Roughness (Ra) instead of Rvk, Rk, and Rpk combination that comes from a good plateau hone. . With modern chromium rings , not the ductile iron, that process can take a while. Target Rvk should be 24, Rk, 20, and Rpk 5. Ra is not a measure I'd use on a modern engine anywhere, not on the head gasket, not on the cylinder walls, but I'd expect your cylinder walls are a super slick 10 Ra. If its rougher than all those figures by a factor of 1.6, its getting too rough, and you start to see oil at the bottom of hill after a long run, or the blues on start up. s on start up.


I'm sure you've got issues since you haven't done a 1000 miles yet, but as you know, the operator is the plateau hone for a performance engine.

As long as the liners are still true, then if the moderate boundary layer needed has gone west, (and you haven't got other issues, like the late 90's Modular and LS Chev 1500-1800 rpm shallow compression heighet Zollener piston slap), it all comes from a really smooth bore and need for a little more valley depth in the bore from the core roughness.

If your having blow by, then you know the peak levels have already been given, generally 3 cfm at 5500 rpm or maxumum torque, which on a turbo will be at 3000 rpm, and the same as at 5500 rpm.

With 3 cfm going basically to the crankcase and to the rocker cover, water in oil readings are only an issue for engines with blown head gaskets, or porus head castings, or wet liner engines with a slipped liner. Then, they would go off the chart with milky oil the symptom, basically more than 50% of the blow by would then be water. After a varied bed in, weekly or monthly 1000 miles of running, you might have close to zero oil loss, but a constant 3 cfm blow by is what a normally aspirated engine makes. Turboed, it'll see that peak and more, much more often. Guides, rings, ( through the piston ring gap, and piston rings ) and the additional blow by from a 1.6 boost ratio, and cfm goes up primarily another 40% by turbo shaft, both air compressors, and that extra from the valve stems. In total, these components can be responsible for as much as 40% of the crankcase blowby. The combustion process is largely wasted in a piston engine through heat, but the cracking process of converting gasoline to heat and movement also liberates a lot more steam in a turbo engine. But none of that steam is anything other than evaporative emission blow by, what comes back through the injectors via fuel stand off, and rings, ring gaps, valve steams, then the whole three parts of the turbo. On a turbo engine, that can be a crap ton.
Click to expand...

The new engine has a total run time of less than an hour on it. The plasma moly ring set I used was the best I could buy for a 3.7" bore. The new thicker liners were true as of the moment the engine came off of the bore/hone machine. As to whether or not those pistons are rocking around in their bores, and compromising my ring seal....I couldn't say.

But after dealing with the "do it twice" team at the machine shop...there is a possibility that they bored the cylinder too large for the piston. ( but after having to do the entire cylinder sleeving process over again for free,.......and having had the actual piston when they did it, and having been in business for decades,...I just can't imagine that to be the case.)

The tiny little catch can system I ordered will be here tomorrow. As stated, it only will capture 2oz. of anything that the engine sneezes out of it. It has a drain fitting, so I've decided to link that to a "see through sealed secondary reservoir" ( a mason jar) so that I can see how much oil, and how fouled it is at the same time, that the engine is blowing into it.

Monday is busy. I have to go downtown and get the new lease car licensed. I have to go into work, and get a car I sold pushed through our reconditioning process, and....

I've got to get the Monster done.

This Saturday is the 4th Saturday of the month. I want to get the car up to this cruise in as it is typically the best one each month..so.........I'm gonna be on a mission.
 
Reactions: stangboy, General karthief, RaggedGT and 1 other person

95BlueStallion

My assy trans to myself
15 Year Member
Feb 22, 2007
5,126
3,091
214
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Aug 19, 2018
#8,405
  • Aug 19, 2018
  • #8,405
Mason jar idea reminds me of the glass listerine bottle I used on the Ranger for the coolant overflow. People like those little knick knack touches, me being one of them anyway.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Aug 19, 2018
#8,406
  • Aug 19, 2018
  • #8,406
today is a "me an the wife" day. It's how I've stayed happily married for 33 years. Mostly it's been a casual breakfast, followed by a trip to Costco, after which we go to a brewery to meet some friends, with a new online laptop purchase immediately following. ( MY old assed win 8.1 LT has a broken hinge, and I'm terrified that it'll break off completely one of these days, leaving me w/o the ability toconnect to the car)
I bought a refurb win 10 piece off of Amazon that has a 128gig solid state hard drive, and 8 g of ddr ram. Think the processor is 2.6mhz. For $250.00

It'll do for how I use a computer. I'm more about how quickly it'll move between open windows rather than anything else. The only program I use the thing for is tunerstudio...and internet browsing...itll be perfect.

The rest of the day involves playing in the pool, listening to music, drinking whiskey, and eating ribs, potato salad, and corn on the cob with her.......

How hard is it to stay married to this woman?
 
Reactions: stangboy

95BlueStallion

My assy trans to myself
15 Year Member
Feb 22, 2007
5,126
3,091
214
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Aug 19, 2018
#8,407
  • Aug 19, 2018
  • #8,407
Sounds like a pretty nice day, Mike, and a good life to have as well.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Aug 20, 2018
#8,408
  • Aug 20, 2018
  • #8,408
well hell.

I am literally waiting on paint to dry.

That ricer part claiming itself to be an oil/water separator is installed....kinda.

It's freakin tiny. I plumbed a -10 hose from the valve cover into the "in", and a -8 from the "out" that is now plumbed into the intake air tube in front of the turbo. The other fitting on the valve cover has a -6 running to a check valve that will not allow blow by to push out, but will allow negative suction to have a "relief valve" of sorts to ensure that I won't suck a gasket while cruising, or any other high vacuum situation.

I put a fitting into the bottom of the thing where it was plugged with a pipe plug. I'll run another -6 line to a small jar of some kind so I can see how much oil is passing into it.
we'll see if that thing doesn't end up in the trash.

The air box is painted....and like I said earlier, is waiting on paint to dry. I'm gonna have to reserve my opinion on how this thing is gonna work, because I haven't used the actual glass during the mock ups..

Maybe it'll be together for Saturday,....maybe it won't.
 
Reactions: stangboy, 90sickfox, 95BlueStallion and 1 other person

RaggedGT

Been here over a DECADE and still no CT
Mod Dude
Jul 20, 2014
4,742
3,193
203
Taylorsville ky
Aug 20, 2018
#8,409
  • Aug 20, 2018
  • #8,409
No pics of new Ricer part?
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Aug 21, 2018
#8,410
  • Aug 21, 2018
  • #8,410
It's just too good to let lie..." At the direction of" is my new favorite phrase.

Let's put it in a sentence shall we?

Yes your honor,....I paid money to shut female(s) one, and two up "at the direction of" the lying piece of sht currently occupying the White House "for the purpose of" influencing the outcome of the election of president for the United States.

These days just keep getting better.
 
Reactions: a91what

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
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polk county florida
Aug 21, 2018
#8,411
  • Aug 21, 2018
  • #8,411
I'd rather see pics of the new ricer part installed
 
Reactions: JoeDaddy and RaggedGT

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Aug 21, 2018
#8,412
  • Aug 21, 2018
  • #8,412
General karthief said:
I'd rather see pics of the new ricer part installed
Click to expand...

That may take a minute.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
27,960
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203
polk county florida
Aug 22, 2018
#8,413
  • Aug 22, 2018
  • #8,413
9 hours worth of minutes
i need an imoji or gif, or whatever it's called that taps on the screen
RICER PART pic please!
 

xecute

Eaten, greased and played with my balls
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2017
171
89
53
Dunedin, New Zealand (South Is.)
Aug 22, 2018
#8,414
  • Aug 22, 2018
  • #8,414
Mishimoto Baffled Oil Catch Can PCV System (56.7 millilters)







A bigger external case exists ..but its the same 57 silly liter unit


 

xecute

Eaten, greased and played with my balls
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2017
171
89
53
Dunedin, New Zealand (South Is.)
Aug 22, 2018
#8,415
  • Aug 22, 2018
  • #8,415
The kit with the Big Buff external housing is an upgrade for a Cadillac ATS 2.0T. That isn't really a Ricer is it?
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Aug 22, 2018
#8,416
  • Aug 22, 2018
  • #8,416
That's it to be sure,......only mine has a self added drain hose that will connect to a larger reservoir that I'll mount lower down the drain pipe.
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
10 Year Member
Apr 6, 2011
10,739
6,721
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Hillsborough county
Aug 22, 2018
#8,417
  • Aug 22, 2018
  • #8,417
I got the ebay knockoff of this same can, it is baffled but I need to add the mesh/wool inside. Even without it the can works as it should.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
27,960
10,602
203
polk county florida
Aug 22, 2018
#8,418
  • Aug 22, 2018
  • #8,418
Bout time!
i was almost out of popcorn
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Aug 22, 2018
#8,419
  • Aug 22, 2018
  • #8,419
Alright! Alright!

Dammit!

For your consumption. ( even though the freakin paint isn't dry on the retention straps)






There now, satisfied?

Even the frame itself is still wet a little, so the finish will have to wait. ( besides, I got no little mason jar yet that will serve as the remote reservoir)

eventually, I'll get a black hose end for the other end of the catch can, as that's ratty red/blue junk will have no place under my hood. Whether or not I need it, I added a check valve to the other end of the valve cover that will not allow crankcase pressure out, ( it'll all have to flow out the other end) but will let the crankcase breathe when I'm cruising. I don't know if that logic makes sense or not, but I'm goin with it.

The box is so tight now I gotta almost jam the damn thing down on top of the tb's....ill not be worrying about boost leak there. The glass is protected from damage by thin aluminum strips that the preload screws would potentially cause,... And the whole damn thing is a semi-permanent solution...only in case of catastrophic failure does it need to come apart.

Ever again.
 
Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
Reactions: Boostedpimp, stangboy and General karthief

RaggedGT

Been here over a DECADE and still no CT
Mod Dude
Jul 20, 2014
4,742
3,193
203
Taylorsville ky
Aug 22, 2018
#8,420
  • Aug 22, 2018
  • #8,420
I like it, nice install mike , fingers crossed that’s the fix to your oil issue -
and if you have any vacuum line left,you could sleeve those red tb lines
 
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