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Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

  • Thread starter Thread starter CarMichael Angelo
  • Start date Start date Aug 26, 2013
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    1978 2jzgte 6 cylinder american racing ar 500 australian head custom interior cyclone cyclone spoiler fairmont ford fuel injected futura indepedant throttle bodies inline ms3x roller cam snow cooler turbocharged
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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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#10,521
  • Sep 24, 2019
  • #10,521
jrichker said:
See http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?t=38727 for some help with your problem...

Ken_m » posted...

"The problem you are encountering is very common. The cause of this is when welding relatively "dirty" carbons steels (compared to alloys ) you need need cleaning agents in the weld. Hot rolled sheet is the worst

Because with TIG , the process itself does not really provide any cleaning, you must rely on the filler material to clean the weld

The most common cause for this is people using AWS R45 and AWS R60 carbon steel filler. This stuff is actually for oxy acetylene gas welding. You can't tell the diffrence at first glance when looking at it

The proper filler choice for unalloyed carbon steel ( mild steel ) is AWS ER70-S2 . The "S-2" filler is also refereed to as "triple deoxidized" because it has Ti, Al ,Zr . It also has Si and Mg which are common deoxidizers is MIG wires

A distant second choice is ER70-S-6 ( very common in MIG wire form ). This filler uses Si and Mg as primary deoxidizers

Quality filler will always be stamped / coined on both ends showing AWS Class

Lastly, if you are trying to do a pure fusion weld without filler on carbon steel, the only way to minimize the pinholes is to minimize the depth of penetration, which means go easy on the current. Don't be surprised if you can't get rid if the pinholes when doing pure fusion welds (without filler ) on carbon steels

You can get away with using the cheap oxy filler if you get lucky and the base material chemistry is relatively low in trace contaminants. Having said that, since you don't use much filler TIG welding there is no reason to be saving money by buying the less expensive filler

If you use only ER70S-2 you won't have any problems

Hope this helps"
Click to expand...
I'm assuming that this is a link then, and I cannot ask a question,......but just in case....
If I try to clean the pinhole area what do I clean it with? And,..will adding filler rod ( or mig wire....I got buttloads of that) fix this?
 

droopie85gt

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#10,522
  • Sep 24, 2019
  • #10,522
CarMichael Angelo said:
And if anybody needs stuff like ,ohhh injectors, a good Wastegate,...and a slightly modified TB..you could PM me.
Click to expand...
What size wastegate and injectors?
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
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Birmingham, al
Sep 24, 2019
#10,523
  • Sep 24, 2019
  • #10,523
droopie85gt said:
What size wastegate and injectors?
Click to expand...
Drew.....dont make me come up there..
What does it say in the new title?
 

droopie85gt

Hookers and Beer for life!
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#10,524
  • Sep 24, 2019
  • #10,524
it didn't say 10 minutes ago.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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#10,525
  • Sep 24, 2019
  • #10,525
If you are tig welding you use only ER70S-2 you won't have any problems
that is what I read anyway, that is the type of wire.
not that I am a welder, just what I gathered from reading the posts.
i didn't see any mention of what to clean it with.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
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#10,526
  • Sep 24, 2019
  • #10,526
I
droopie85gt said:
it didn't say 10 minutes ago.
Click to expand...
You're right drew...it said that 14 hours ago.
 

jrichker

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#10,527
  • Sep 24, 2019
  • #10,527
CarMichael Angelo said:
I'm assuming that this is a link then, and I cannot ask a question,......but just in case....
If I try to clean the pinhole area what do I clean it with? And,..will adding filler rod ( or mig wire....I got buttloads of that) fix this?
Click to expand...
It is a link and what I know is what I read; it does make sense to use the type of rod and method that they prescribe.

It seems that the more common low grade steel may have some impurities in it that are a result of loose manufacturing processes.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Birmingham, al
Sep 24, 2019
#10,528
  • Sep 24, 2019
  • #10,528
Well....(Here,...let me add a little redneck to the update)..

Welp,...the whole external pan is welded, leaving me with the conflicted decision to mig weld every inside corner in this big rectangular 16 ga box I have bolted to the bottom of the engine.

On one hand,..I mig welded the 250 pan...I sectioned a 3.3 pan and cut down a 250 pan, and made a double sump 250 pan..
The only one in the country I'd imagine ...( I mean,..who would do something so stupid anyway?)

I didn't leak.

I mig welded the whole gas tank in the red car.

it didn't leak.

I mig welded the top of the monster's gas tank when I converted it over to an in tank pump..
It doesn't leak.

I should be able to do the same here...my only concern is that the freakin pan fits now. In other words, it's not all twisted and warped like it'll surely be if I decide to mig weld the inside of the pan...but I have to make sure I stop the leaks..and right now I'll bet I got a bunch.

In other news,.....Amazon turbo manifold dude lost to me. He paid the extra 56 buck to shut me up. I left him alone with no crushing bad review. The new turbo manifold arrived today.. It, and the turbo fit. But the thing itself looks like they scrounged the tubing from wherever they could get it...with all kinds of weird mars on the tubes..and the common plenum looks like I did it.

( read,...not professional looking)

I don't care though,..as long as I can get the bitch bolted on, and a 68 mm turbo fits...it does the job. And, it'll be coated before it ever sees one degree of exhaust heat.
 
Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
Reactions: 95BlueStallion and 90sickfox

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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#10,529
  • Sep 25, 2019
  • #10,529
I did not read any red neck in that at all.
 

stanglx2002

CT Material here
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#10,530
  • Sep 25, 2019
  • #10,530
Redneck = Taking a tube of Gasket Maker and caulk those seams shut... DONE

Climbing rope to fill in the big gaps before the Gasket Maker
 
Reactions: General karthief

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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#10,531
  • Sep 25, 2019
  • #10,531
I was gonna say that but he don't pay any attention to me unless I make a grammatical error
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Sep 25, 2019
#10,532
  • Sep 25, 2019
  • #10,532
General karthief said:
I did not read any red neck in that at all.
Click to expand...
I guess " welp" is normal in northern Florida, my bad.
 
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droopie85gt

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#10,533
  • Sep 25, 2019
  • #10,533
I thought welp was what you get on your hands from not wearing gloves while welding.



Oh wait, that's welt and sunburn.
 
Reactions: 2Blue2

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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#10,534
  • Sep 25, 2019
  • #10,534
 

Rdub6

So while I wait to figure out my rear end issues
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#10,535
  • Sep 25, 2019
  • #10,535
Here’s some clarification:
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Birmingham, al
Sep 26, 2019
#10,536
  • Sep 26, 2019
  • #10,536
On a whim last night in between bitching about one thing or another, I decided to go downstairs and see if there was anyway to trace how all of the water had gotten into the monsters block. On another website, I'm trying to sell all of that stuff, and I wanted to be sure that it was truly a HG issue that allowed all of the antifreeze into the pan.
I had ported the head two years ago when I converted it over to N/a, I wanted to be sure that a port in the head hadn't broken through. And who knows about any of the rest..the block has been over bored to the moon twice to install the sleeves ( once .180 over, this last time, .250 over.) People that follow this would know that the original sleeve had a .090 thick wall when installed, and after final boring, left me with like a .070" cylinder wall.
But you'll also remember that those sleeves were improperly machined, and I ended up with a taper in the cylinder bore that was much more narrow at the bottom, than at the top. And the #5 cylinder had bad machining marks where the boring bar cut huge gouges into the wall.
And After discovering that when I disassembled it after running for awhile, I made them fix it.
The second time around, and who knows why, they installed a much thicker sleeve. This time, even after boring to the final bore dimensions, the cylinder wall thickness looked to be at least .100". That means, they probably hogged those old sleeves out and damaged the remaining block to the point that they had to install those bigger sleeves..and who knows how big they had to cut the holes to get them bitches in.......Like maybe .260 over?... in other words..they bored my block over 1/4" to install those sleeves.
when I got the block back I took a pic of the deck, cause you could plainly see the wall thickness...I was happy that I had such a thick cylinder. In January of 2018.

But now, after running the thing since then...I think the folly of the whole thing has finally shown itself for what it truly is/was...

A time bomb.
* Look at the crack between the cylinders..there is one between everyone of them. And now that the block isn't all clean and shiny, you can see those thick assed sleeves for real.
So....obviously it took it awhile..I drove this thing to the Gulf coast last year, and It ran perfectly..probably as a result of me bouncing the thing off the rev limiter a couple of times,..maybe just a matter of time...I don't know. But one things for sure,...the old Monster is dead.

Long live the New Monster.
 
Reactions: 02 281 GT, KZGUNS and Hoytster

Noobz347

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#10,537
  • Sep 26, 2019
  • #10,537
CarMichael Angelo said:
On a whim last night in between bitching about one thing or another, I decided to go downstairs and see if there was anyway to trace how all of the water had gotten into the monsters block. On another website, I'm trying to sell all of that stuff, and I wanted to be sure that it was truly a HG issue that allowed all of the antifreeze into the pan.
I had ported the head two years ago when I converted it over to N/a, I wanted to be sure that a port in the head hadn't broken through. And who knows about any of the rest..the block has been over bored to the moon twice to install the sleeves ( once .180 over, this last time, .250 over.) People that follow this would know that the original sleeve had a .090 thick wall when installed, and after final boring, left me with like a .070" cylinder wall.
But you'll also remember that those sleeves were improperly machined, and I ended up with a taper in the cylinder bore that was much more narrow at the bottom, than at the top. And the #5 cylinder had bad machining marks where the boring bar cut huge gouges into the wall.
And After discovering that when I disassembled it after running for awhile, I made them fix it.
The second time around, and who knows why, they installed a much thicker sleeve. This time, even after boring to the final bore dimensions, the cylinder wall thickness looked to be at least .100". That means, they probably hogged those old sleeves out and damaged the remaining block to the point that they had to install those bigger sleeves..and who knows how big they had to cut the holes to get them bitches in.......Like maybe .260 over?... in other words..they bored my block over 1/4" to install those sleeves.
when I got the block back I took a pic of the deck, cause you could plainly see the wall thickness...I was happy that I had such a thick cylinder. In January of 2018.

But now, after running the thing since then...I think the folly of the whole thing has finally shown itself for what it truly is/was...

A time bomb.
* Look at the crack between the cylinders..there is one between everyone of them. And now that the block isn't all clean and shiny, you can see those thick assed sleeves for real.
So....obviously it took it awhile..I drove this thing to the Gulf coast last year, and It ran perfectly..probably as a result of me bouncing the thing off the rev limiter a couple of times,..maybe just a matter of time...I don't know. But one things for sure,...the old Monster is dead.

Long live the New Monster.
Click to expand...


...and there it is.

I don't have a funny comment for this one but I'm not surprised either. This is the first post in this long thread of posts that I could feel in the pit of my stomach as I read it.

I know the final 'thing' isn't what you're always after but it completely sucks that all that time and effort you put in came to this. It did [look] good.

Is this new motor going to take you down the same road for other reasons?
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
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polk county florida
Sep 26, 2019
#10,538
  • Sep 26, 2019
  • #10,538
All that time and money only to be a victim of machinists that don't care. I'd want to drop that block on someone's nice shiny hood!
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Sep 26, 2019
#10,539
  • Sep 26, 2019
  • #10,539
Who knows what caused it. It could be that I'm simply pushing an engine was never intended to do what I'm doing with it.
 

Hoytster

I don't dare do that to my Knob
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Cornwall, PA
Sep 26, 2019
#10,540
  • Sep 26, 2019
  • #10,540
I'm curious to see how deep those cracks go.... You thinking the cracks compromised the HG seal and caused your issues (I would expect the seal to be between the liner and head gasket)? Have you straight edged the block and heads yet to see what the distortion is? I'd check to see if the liners have moved/protruded/dropped which caused your diagnoses HG issues.

Excuse any ignorance I have on this motor, I don't know this platform very well.
 
Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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