1993

Super snail · Apr 9, 2018

Megasquirt mspnp 2 help needed.
5.0 stock block
42lb injectors ,stock pump & adjustable fuel pressure regulator set to 40psi
Running map.
On3 70mm turbo kit.
Loaded up the mustang file, set the displacement to 4950 and injectors to 440cc
Turn it over, fires, sounds like crap, dies before I can escape the plume of smoke coming out of the exhaust
I've checked the leads, set the balancer at 0° and set the distributor to the #1 spark plug point.
Distributor and throttlebody are plugged in.
Can'
Get it to run long enough to check the timing.
Any tips? Anyone running a turbo on a stock car that would be willing to send me a map to work with.

I am brand new to tuning and am deffinatly more of a learn by doing kinda guy.

a91what · Apr 9, 2018

Hello please join me here
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-fo...tudio-help-thread.888730/page-59#post-9112089

We can help with this no problem, I can help you with a base tune file.

Super snail · Apr 9, 2018

Megasquirt mspnp 2 help needed.
5.0 stock block
42lb injectors ,stock pump & adjustable fuel pressure regulator set to 40psi
Running map.
On3 70mm turbo kit.
Loaded up the mustang file, set the displacement to 4950 and injectors to 440cc
Turn it over, fires, sounds like crap, dies before I can escape the plume of smoke coming out of the exhaust
I've checked the leads, set the balancer at 0° and set the distributor to the #1 spark plug point.
Distributor and throttlebody are plugged in.
Can'
Get it to run long enough to check the timing.
Any tips? Anyone running a turbo on a stock car that would be willing to send me a map to work with.

I am brand new to tuning and am deffinatly more of a learn by doing kinda guy.

bird_dog0347 · Apr 9, 2018

Super snail said:
Megasquirt mspnp 2 help needed.
5.0 stock block
42lb injectors ,stock pump & adjustable fuel pressure regulator set to 40psi
Running map.
On3 70mm turbo kit.
Loaded up the mustang file, set the displacement to 4950 and injectors to 440cc
Turn it over, fires, sounds like crap, dies before I can escape the plume of smoke coming out of the exhaust
I've checked the leads, set the balancer at 0° and set the distributor to the #1 spark plug point.
Distributor and throttlebody are plugged in.
Can'
Get it to run long enough to check the timing.
Any tips? Anyone running a turbo on a stock car that would be willing to send me a map to work with.

I am brand new to tuning and am deffinatly more of a learn by doing kinda guy.

Stock ignition system? Anything like MSD or any crap like that? I know others here are WAY better at this than me but you need a FULL list of mods for them to properly help.

Super snail · Apr 9, 2018

bird_dog0347 said:
Stock ignition system? Anything like MSD or any crap like that? I know others here are WAY better at this than me but you need a FULL list of mods for them to properly help.

Everything else is stock minus an edlbrock intake

bird_dog0347 · Apr 9, 2018

Super snail said:
Everything else is stock minus an edlbrock intake

Here's a video on how I setup my timing... maybe it will help?

Super snail · Apr 9, 2018

bird_dog0347 said:
Here's a video on how I setup my timing... maybe it will help?

That's pretty funny i just used that video to set my timing, using the screw to hold the throttlebody open at idle I got the timing set. Afrs are in the 10's

a91what · Apr 9, 2018

Super snail said:
That's pretty funny i just used that video to set my timing, using the screw to hold the throttlebody open at idle I got the timing set. Afrs are in the 10's

Great! Send me the tune file you used and I will help adjust it, you can review the changes I made to help learn.

5.0Thunder · Apr 11, 2018

Super snail said:
Megasquirt mspnp 2 help needed.
5.0 stock block
42lb injectors ,stock pump & adjustable fuel pressure regulator set to 40psi
Running map.
On3 70mm turbo kit.
Loaded up the mustang file, set the displacement to 4950 and injectors to 440cc
Turn it over, fires, sounds like crap, dies before I can escape the plume of smoke coming out of the exhaust
I've checked the leads, set the balancer at 0° and set the distributor to the #1 spark plug point.
Distributor and throttlebody are plugged in.
Can'
Get it to run long enough to check the timing.
Any tips? Anyone running a turbo on a stock car that would be willing to send me a map to work with.

I am brand new to tuning and am deffinatly more of a learn by doing kinda guy.

setting the balancer at 0 will make it hard to idle since you're effectively starting with 0 advance. Set the Balancer at 10° BTDC when stabbing dizzy, then fire up and verify it's 10° with the Spout connector out. Then you can plug the spout back in and do your MS timing calibration.

Also, does this have a wideband? You'll absolutely need one for ease of tuning.

Super snail · Apr 11, 2018

5.0Thunder said:
setting the balancer at 0 will make it hard to idle since you're effectively starting with 0 advance. Set the Balancer at 10° BTDC when stabbing dizzy, then fire up and verify it's 10° with the Spout connector out. Then you can plug the spout back in and do your MS timing calibration.

Also, does this have a wideband? You'll absolutely need one for ease of tuning.

I have wideband, I assumed that the spout connector didn't need to be removed when using mega squirt, good to know thanks.

5.0Thunder · Apr 11, 2018

Super snail said:
I have wideband, I assumed that the spout connector didn't need to be removed when using mega squirt, good to know thanks.

You only remove it when verifying a distributor stab, you plug it back in when calibrating megasquirt.

a91what · Apr 11, 2018

Super snail said:
I have wideband, I assumed that the spout connector didn't need to be removed when using mega squirt, good to know thanks.

The spout does not need to be removed to set the timing, in most cases the car will not run with the spout removed.

5.0Thunder · Apr 11, 2018

a91what said:
The spout does not need to be removed to set the timing, in most cases the car will not run with the spout removed.

It's the only way to check rotor position on a fresh install when the engine is running without ecu control, which is necessary if determining where on the rotor edge you're firing, which is important.

All it takes is a little throttle while the spout is unplugged and it'll run fine for the timing light check. a few seconds is all it takes before plugging the spout back in to calibrate ECU ignition settings.

a91what · Apr 11, 2018

5.0Thunder said:
It's the only way to check rotor position on a fresh install when the engine is running without ecu control, which is necessary if determining where on the rotor edge you're firing, which is important.

All it takes is a little throttle while the spout is unplugged and it'll run fine for the timing light check. a few seconds is all it takes before plugging the spout back in to calibrate ECU ignition settings.

When I had my car running on TFI i never once pulled the spout to verify anything. The car flat out would not run with the spout removed I used it as kill switch. I simply set the timing to fixed at 20* in the wizard set my offset to 10* and adjusted the distributor until I got my 20* on the balancer. Unless I missed something very important in TFI 101 the coil will fire when it gets triggered by the pip signal, I never could figure out why they won't run with the spout removed and neither could anyone else... it always ran great even with distributor changes and this is how I have set the timing on all my tfi based installs.

Rotor phasing can be achieved without removing the spout as long as the offset angle stays within the 0-19* window, i have found 90* of the time setting the timing with a simple 10* offset usually gets it close. Besides the tfi sends the signal based on the pip, the ms still uses the same pip signal the stock ECU did.
Unless I'm missing something, I feel uninformed.... lol

5.0Thunder · Apr 12, 2018

a91what said:
When I had my car running on TFI i never once pulled the spout to verify anything. The car flat out would not run with the spout removed I used it as kill switch. I simply set the timing to fixed at 20* in the wizard set my offset to 10* and adjusted the distributor until I got my 20* on the balancer. Unless I missed something very important in TFI 101 the coil will fire when it gets triggered by the pip signal, I never could figure out why they won't run with the spout removed and neither could anyone else... it always ran great even with distributor changes and this is how I have set the timing on all my tfi based installs.

Rotor phasing can be achieved without removing the spout as long as the offset angle stays within the 0-19* window, i have found 90* of the time setting the timing with a simple 10* offset usually gets it close. Besides the tfi sends the signal based on the pip, the ms still uses the same pip signal the stock ECU did.
Unless I'm missing something, I feel uninformed.... lol

In reference to the bolded sentence: This often happens when the distributor was stabbed too retarded (like at 0° as mentioned above), which is why ford set the base at 10°, so that the engine would still run with the spout out in order to verify base timing before the computer adds timing in. Since we weren't *supposed* to mess with the stock tune, this was the best way to ensure the engine was advancing as intended.

Since we can control advance in MS, you definitely can throw enough advance in there to make it run almost regardless of distributor position but now you lose confidence in where your rotor edge is located in relation to the post, which means you limit your total possible retard, or total possible advance (if you stabbed it overly advanced). Typically we aren't concerned with how much we can retard the ignition so it's not much of an issue.

Your understanding of how it works isn't incorrect, as far as I can tell, and *most* of the time is fine, as I eluded to above. There are rare cases where tolerance/slop stack-up in your engine, or maybe electrical offsets produce ignition settings that don't mathematically make much sense. My turbo car for instance, was stabbed at 10° and verified with spout out. I plugged spout back in and set the fixed angle to 20°BTDC, go to my balancer and it shows about 15, so my offset is now 5°, where you'd think it would be 10°. By just turning the distributor to make it match your fixed angle, you lose track of the relation between rotor edge and spark post, where as my proposed method keeps that correct relation and adjusts in the software.

5.0Thunder · Apr 24, 2018

Did this ever get captured Steve? We can continue the discussion here since Noobz wants to break out the user-specific help.

a91what · Apr 24, 2018

I remember helping him with a tune file, until i am able to dive back through the help thread and move things we may just need to tag the members and ask how they are doing. appreciate the help!

5.0Thunder · Apr 30, 2018

@Super snail What's up?

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